They really haven’t. Only 1 of the 4 games prior to had one.
We definitely need this
Diablo Immortal sucks, but its Codex system is great, and would improve D4 a lot
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In other words it needs to be a completely different game. Just say that next time.
No…
Since this a game where we are suspending reality and pretending, let’s pretend this is real. Yes; having the best equipment is important but any hero has personal qualities and characteristics, i.e. skills. Computing power has grown considerably since D1 and D2 which gives the ability to add more and more dimensions to building your character.
To excel at Diablo you have to choose your skills through a skill tree and paragon board, and shift through all the gear you discover choosing the best gear. This is an important part of the game and many people do not choose as well as others. It sounds like you want to simplify the game and make it more arcade like.
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You used a skill tree? Newb. I haven’t even put any points into paragon or skill tree.
As an uber mule (literally) I walk around with perfect gear and let everyone else do the damage while I pack their stuff to sell.
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Skill trees are not needed or important.
Character based skill customization is. Which skill trees are just one version of.
Couldnt possibly disagree more.
Okay, I was wrong. I could disagree more.
Screw endgame focus. The entire game should be improved, and in focus, all the way from lvl 1.
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Don’t try to poke the hornet’s nest @OP lol
Yes, I’m optimistic about the D4 core system as well, but - need better implementation so people realize that
Doesnt have to be one or the other. Why not just have improved items AND skill trees???
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They can do both. No reason to limit yourself to one or the other. Stop thinking in such limited capacity.
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Exactly, only ONE version. Pretty sure it can be done with objects too.
Yes, it would be ideal to focus on everything at once, but doing everything at once is the perfect recipe for disaster.
Doing things right one by one is (unfortunately) the best. So you have to decide: what first?
To differentiate itself from the other RPGs on the market.
Also, I think a focus on items would keep the simple essence of the game and the essence of Diablo.
Furthermore, focusing on one does not mean completely forgetting about the other.
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The only reason the stat sticks work there is because the game has others interesting systems, not only +damage…
Like you have hit or miss (therefore you need accuracy), you have the concept of block (block chance on items), attack speed scales very different than in d4 and you target for breakpoints, you have resistances both on players and monsters (amd immunity) and item affixes that interact with both and the list goes on.
This is all vastly simplified and throw into the skill tree in D4, while in d2 it is more modular because there are more and more complex game systems that are global and enable the items to have impact in many ways.
For example you can build for freeze and chill in any char in D2, you may not make a gg build, however elements themselves have synergies and game mechanics regardless of the skill tree (even though the trees may enhance them).
In d4, if your class doesn’t have a node that “enables” the chill/freeze to actually do more interesting stuff, you can’t do nothing but only add damage, you can’t make damage conversion (just a few uniques and only for some classes like druid), you can’t build around chill rate, you don’t need to care about resistance penetration because there is no such mechanic on the enemy side, etc.
This is the point to me, items will interact with the game mechanics, in D4 most of them are in the tree and currently (this may change tomorrow, but this change would be so big that I would say it is unlikely) there is basically no modularity on anything but +damage. Therefore, the skill tree is important for itemisation here.
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Items are not character based power. That power doesn’t come from the character, it just comes from playing dress up, with no longevity to the choices being made, since it literally can be changed with a single click.
I dont think they would need to focus on one or the other in this case, since it isnt about doing two different things at once. The same stuff that will work in endgame will also work before endgame. Which is very much my view here, the whole idea of “game” and “endgame” being two wildly different things, is something A-RPGs should get rid of. Fast.
There already is a Diablo game mindlessly focused on items; Diablo 3.
Yeah, definitely part of why D4 feels shallower.
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Lets make our skill try suck and not improve it to differentiate ourselves from competition? What kind of a stance is this?
I don’t want my build to rely on item drops.
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Skill trees in other games like last epoch attracted me to it. Haven’t touched D4 since about 2 days into it because of the same old tired builds. They need more complexity in builds to have any form of replay ability, in last epoch you can play one class 3 different ways utilizing similar abilities. D4; oh great I get to play the same skill trees for the same classes I’ve already seen for 3 almost 4 seasons now. Open up some diversity, D4 is just stale.
Yes… and I love that simplicity.
Changing your build with just one click sounds pretty cool.
Now, this is already done in Diablo Immortal. Thanks to its Codex system (essence system) your legendary affixes become your “skill tree”. Finding new items is equivalent to unlocking new skills or new properties for your skills.
EndGame is a word that implies 10 different things… same for EarlyGame.
Let’s not fool ourselves by using these words and thinking that they are just one thing each.
Also, in D4 the balance of EarlyGame skills and classes is defined by the balance of the EndGame… and it doesn’t work very well. So: no, EndGame is not necessarily compatible with Early.
WRONG, there are 2, and the second one does it very well (if you ignore P2W).
-Items radically modify abilities (for example, transform a buf into a pet)
-“Percentage items” do not give more than 20% damage increases.
-Sets do not use the same slots as legendaries.
-The sets give at most bonuses of 15% or 20% for every 2 pieces.
-(The stats are garbage… but only because every week there is a soft reset of the maximum level that affects the max stats)
Fair enough. +1.
It is rather a: “Let’s improve our objects that suck and not create a POE 3” (there are already 2)
So even less reason for Diablo 4 to do the same, when that is already so massively covered by other titles.
Not if they specifically try to make them incompatible. But that is Blizzards incompetence more than anything else.
Sure, but it could be the same 10 things in early game and in endgame.
You can call it endgame starting at lvl 1, or early game continuing throughout (with no “endgame”). The terms being used are not that important. It just is a false dilemma that developers must choose between doing endgame or early game.
Which according to yourself is not more than there are Diablo 3s out there already.
I am no fan of PoE, so I can only agree on no PoE 3. Both due to its trading, and its itemization, and the whole crafting nonsense is not impressive either.
However, other A-RPGs shows the way imo.
Well interesting point; there should be a way to invest our wealth in a long term path: like building a castle or helping revamp a city. Rebuilding Caldeum or hire a small army….something that prolongs the reach of the game, adding more depth.
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Covered by other Diablo titles*.
I think it’s very fair to copy yourself…
And if it’s still not clear… it’s Diablo Immortal… all those points from before… yes… Immortal.
YES!! Now just imagine Blizzard handling 2 things at the same time and you will understand my point.
(seriously thinking about this)
Quite difficult to maintain the same conditions of a character who can level up and one who cannot level up…
The level would have to be infinite or non-existent…
There should be no level requirement for objects.
Everything would have to be available from the beginning and at maximum power (or at the same level as the end).
It sounds more like a sandbox with moderator privileges.
Also, having everything from the beginning (or access to everything) is very aggressive with new players… it is overwhelming.
I think Diablo has a very good way of his own: Simple, casual, and item-focus. Obviously not everyone likes it, but the opposite already has several good exponents.
I’m not saying it doesn’t have to copy good things from other ARPGs. Good things are good (No matter what), but at the same time you have to know how to go your own way (and It’s quite difficult to be honest 
)
You can already lvl up in D4 endgame. Endgame basically starts at lvl 5-70, around the time you enter WT3/4 and unlocks the endgame content.
Heck, you can also lvl up in D3 endgame, due to its catastrophic paragon system.
And same with Immortal.
Not that you should have such systems in D4, just saying that lvling or not lvling is not really related to endgame.
No, none of these would have to be the case.
But sure, you should be able to find useful items at low lvl, that would still be useful at high lvl for example.
Well, the game (sadly) already lets us skip the campaign. So the mechanism already exists for it (and did so in D3).
Albeit it should be taken a step further, the endgame systems should exist in the campaign too.
As for overwhelming players, it doesnt need to be everything at lvl 1. Some might open at lvl 5 or 10 for example.
As impressively bad a game as Immortal is, it actually did some of what I am describing here. The system progression is much smoother instead of some hard wall between game and endgame.