A counter to this , the Best Community I am part of , The Warframe community.
All games should aspire to have that kind of a community.
Nice. I do love Digital Extremes’ story & their link to the community.
I wish I had more patience as a newb. Kept getting distracted. And I always feel major fomo & ‘what’s the point’ (kinda like with No Man’s Sky).
There are so many who will help you if you need it .
I love the game.
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There is a clear answer to this with two components.
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The purpose of game forums is either to ask questions about one’s own ideas or to complain about something within the relevant object. In both cases these involve emotionally driven personal opinions and people have never liked having their personal opinions and ideas rejected. Without a prompt that primes people to the idea that their ideas may be rejected and ridiculed there’s no way to prepare and people react poorly. This escalates.
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Forums and games became “third spaces”. It’s been nothing but a nightmare since that occurred. The toxicity of the forum is directly correlated to the nature of the game; go to Stardew Valley reflective places and you get people who are chill, observant and patient go to Diablo and you get people who are intense, competitive and inquisitive, but go to Call of Duty and you get people who are impulsive, hot tempered and uncooperative. All of these traits reflect the game’s skill requirements and vice versa.
Yes. For humans it is incredibly difficult. It doesn’t help that many gamers are young and self-control is limited. Then, because these places became third spaces, they also have a set of unspoken community rules that at times contradict the general rules. For example, giving away my age, a lot of people used the term ‘f-g’ as a pejorative term of endearment which is obviously against most understood rules about respect but the term itself embedded into the community to the point where it wasn’t seen as offensive. These linguistic complications still make for headscratching moments where someone can say something to you and, if you’re outside the community, you may be mistaking this for the insult it should be even though it’s actually a term of endearment and attempt to reach out. Very weird.
Oh, no it’s just you this time. You are very good at making people angry. Just think of it as helping them burn more calories than they would have normally. It’s a service.
You seem a bit off here imo. I think most people accept this overall in life regardless and through their own maturation process, the individual has to learn how to handle it and the people that lash out others do not have that maturity. Either way, there’s no need to prepare people for said ridicule as ultimately, the ridicule is not deserving of the warm place it has here or in any other forums. People who are ridiculing others for their ideas are behaving poorly and against the forum CoC. That’s more important that preparing people in advance saying ‘There be trolls here… watch your feelings!’. The issue is that Blizz staff should do a better job at making sure those parties ridiculing fools don’t have the voice that they currently maintain and it is only due to lack of consequences. Those immature people who cannot learn to behave appropriately and respectfully with others deserve consequences that they do not get. This sets up and encourages the abuse of the average player on the forum when it goes unhindered creating a more toxic environment.
This was entirely a rhetoric question and really didn’t need to be answered. With that said, there is no mistake in understanding the words and phrasing that was used or are used. This isn’t a situation like you are describing and that’s okay. Your idea is still valid in general even if it doesn’t apply to specifically to what I was asking a rhetoric question in order to be a sarcastic joke.
LOL!!! While appreciate the compliment, and I really do, this was also a mostly rhetorical question as was all of these tbh. I know it’s not easy to read tone in text but it was more about setting up the paradigm of the conversation like a debate and also being somewhat flippant. Asking a question just to make people think about a subject and let their brain open endly run wild with whatever ideas. I totally know I am good at making people mad but it is not just me as the issue overall clearly. in any situation, it’s never just about 1 person entirely and both sides of the equation always contribute together to the problem and not necessarily equally.
This is an issue that has been always been a part of gaming and across a lot of gaming communities. Sure, Diablo has a bit of a bad rap, however, there are plenty of ways to carve out a great, fun space for anyone to enjoy inside it. It’s mostly about, as I think we agree in the other two portions of your post, a lot of people in the forums can be problematic in various ways.
Other than those specific details, I think i pretty much entirely agree with everything you said. Nice comment and thanks for contributing positively.
You do realize you’re talking about a population where the vast majority of people are under 25?
Even if that were true, how to handle rejection and behave socially (either normal or para) was something I remember learning before completing High School. Under 25 is no excuse even though it’s still ‘children age’. Their brains only stopped growing a year prior so they haven’t caught up to their hormones yet and they are incredibly inexperienced, naive, and a lot of other both positive and negative things. Either way, by the time someone is old enough to be in college, they should be able to handle rejection or have learned not to be a bully.
College was way more fun in those young years for me bc most adults at that point were past all the high school level immaturity and stupidity. I think it’s akin to what some people call ‘9th grade humor’. So like 18 is old enough for me to say these youngins need to have learned how to not be idiotically immature and disrespectful towards any rando in general anywhere. most people we expect to have that sort of filter in place to behave with respect when our parents start taking us out in public but I know it comes later in life for some than others.
I don’t think, that i used the wrong wording.
These are examples of my reasons.
I think, you misunderstood them with “facts” maybe. I didn’t wrote about facts, because i’m aware, that my reasons or my opionion do not represent a fact.
I do not suggest such something. But it is a thought, i would to some degree agree on.
In europe, it is my feeling, that people tend not so easily into thinking about black and white, good and evil, right or wrong. Maybe this has something to do with our political systems. We have multilparty-systems.
And i also think, that we in europe or maybe in the rest of the world are much more rational in discussions in general (not everybody but i would say, in general much more than in the States). Facts and numbers instead of “only” feelings as source material.
In the States, you have “only” two parties. And this paired with the much stronger religious background seems to give a lot of people the feeling, that there are “always” only two choices. Black and white, good vs evil and so on.
And this is a tendency i see more and more growing, especially in social media. You can’t have a youtube video/reddit thread/etc., where there is no controversy and arguing in terms of “you are right” or “you are wrong”, in terms of extreme positions. I’m not on tik-tok or facebook (any more) but i don’t think, that it is very different there.
And a lot of people do not understand simple logic.
Not beeing for something doesn’t mean i’m against something.
The logical opposite of white is not black, it is “not white”. I’m aware, that i stretch the term logic to some degree here.
And that are some reasons that leeds to maybe toxic discussions, because people (on all sides) may misinterpret language or words.
I also have to say, i would love a discussion about this topic, but i think, this forum isn’t the right place for it. From my side for example: i know, i should be much more careful with words and the using of methaphors, but in the end, it is a gaming forum and i do not have the feeling, that all the time is worth the efford and the loss of lifetime.
From my experience this is true and part of the problem here in 'Murica. Most of the sheelpe here have been brainwashed for decades into forgetting that we are supposed to have a plurality here. It is supposed to be how the Europeans have it but think the two party tug of war system here is normal and just fine. It’s totally not and one side is completely overrun and controlled by terrorism and most of us in law enforcement and the intelligence community here actually understand this much better than the average 'Murican. It’s not supposed to be majority rules here but through decades of corruption, greed, and yes, terrorism, 'Murica is not what is supposed to be.
This is also true. Just saying.
This is the perfect place for it! The place it needs to be and the only place where a discussion like this actually works and succeeds and makes any sort of difference whatsoever. FB or elsewhere is not it. This is all about encouraging better, more nuanced communication, while also combatting the terrible behavior of others by exposing the problem and helping everyone understand it in the proper context.
'preciate the comments. You clearly have a lot of good insight and I’m glad you made your points as you did. thoughtful and well phrased. For the most part, if people like them are going to come at you the wrong way, it’s best to ignore them and not engage them as I do. It’s better to just flag and report nasty, pointless and abusive comments that ignore the CoC.
‘E pluribus unum’
This is one of those complex conversations where you have to discuss the difference between strategic management and emotional maturity. Children as young as 5 can have strategic management for emotions like anger, going and breathing in and out while counting to 10, but to declare them emotionally mature because they have a strategy is a horrible error.
In the same sense:
Either way, by the time someone is old enough to be in college, they should be able to handle rejection or have learned not to be a bully.
It’s not a question of whether it is learned but whether it is even accessible. Emotional maturity doesn’t develop in humans until deep 30s at the earliest and even rational maturity, the age you mentioned of 24, is not present for a lot of these people. So the ability to deploy the actual strategies is not present. In the same sense expecting a child to count to 10 100% of the time is a fool’s expectation; even if the strategy is there and known it’s deployment is spurious and inconsistent.
This is not to mean that it is an excuse so much as it is a very real, very meaningful explanation of why things like this occur. Third space toxicity is a combination of attempting to belong to a social group and gatekeeping people out but because the people involved are rarely capable of accessing sound social behaviors (esp. when anonymity combined with perceived support is present) when in-the-moment things go south rapidly depending on “the vibe”.
And presuming you were a well mannered high schooler on the internet being well behaved you are a rarity. Congratulations. Most high schoolers aren’t adapted enough to be socially consistent in an internally consistent way deploying strategies mechanically.
Just note that college is a space for selection-bias. Can’t speak for your experience because I don’t know the size of your college but my guess is that rather than everyone leveling up in maturity you probably just never hung around the people you wrote off as immature. This power of choice expresses itself as a nostalgic effect in some people. The internet game forum is closer to high school, you don’t “choose” who is where, than college, where you absolutely can choose not to go to places that will likely upset you.
Even though I’ve been a stranger full of irony & spite
Holding nothing but contempt for all things beautiful & bright
There’s something that shines around you, & it seems to my delight
To give you just a little sweetness … just a little light.
(John Perry Barlow “Just A Little Light”)
Really do not agree with this at all unless it’s on a specific contextual basis but it absolutely is a complex conversation. That I agree with you on.
From my knowledge and experience, this is 90% false. Sure there are people who are stunted an incapable of learning things having less exposure or certain disabilities, however, most people learn at a very young age how to be respectful in social or public environments. This is a pretty basic skill for most people. Launching into instant ridicule of others the moment they say something, or anything at all, is not a normal behavior.
This is most definitely not true. Most high schoolers adapt to this concept very easily just by going to school. That’s part of the point.
There are times when you offend me
& I do the same to you
If we can’t or won’t get past it
I guess we may be through
(Robert Hunter, “Built To Last”)
Are you treating an internet forum as equivalent to a cafe that you physically sit in?
If you are we cannot see eye-to-eye and I can live with that.
No. Most toxic communities: “WoW” “LoL” “Dota” “CS2”
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If you don’t agree that this public internet forum is just a digital equivalent of a public place then you are correct. Regardless of the potential of someone thinking they have anonymity on the internet, this actually changes nothing due the fact that laws still govern everything we do online as if it were a public place here in America. If you do not understand this, then you are correct in thinking we will never see eye to eye on the matter. The feeling of anonymity people have that they think enables them to behave more poorly than then would in a physical pace irl, it means functionally nothing given the laws placed through our courts. It’s called Tort law. yes, there is also criminal law involved as well but tort law is specifically about your liability being involved with society interacting with others in public spaces and we all have a duty to uphold the laws and behave according to laws which govern our behavior if it’s irl or online.
Totally fair stance. A lot of people have made very similar comments.
So, you’re calling me toxic. Define toxic?
who called you toxic? I didn’t. Why do you think someone called you toxic? Do you engage in abusive commentary of others for any reason?
you say no trolling, yet your entire post is trolling… typical basement dweller post
lol, obvious typical troll is trolling. For the record bc you keep throwing a stereotypical insult at me as if it were true, I live in a nice house on the corner of my street. No mom, just me although I do go through a few regular what others call Milfs often.
It’s really nice to be able to live alone and afford my own place to myself. I can step out onto my front porch and do whatever I want to do whenever I want to do in it. Must be hard to not have that. Feel for you there. maybe if you have more in your life, you would not need to fill that empty void with hurling dumb insults at people indiscriminately. Maybe therapy could help you heal whatever issues you are facing to compensate for your insecurities.
What I do, is not trolling and only deception in action. I only mock and ridicule others when they behave as abusively as you just did. Bye bye baby GojiraTroll! Don’t cry because no one likes you, try therapy instead!