I think the graphics and overall feel of combat set it apart. For me anyway. The feel of combat more so, and the graphics are just a bonus.
Sometimes I wonder if a lot of people didn’t feel that because they were suffering from some of the lag and micro-stuttering issues. For me it was the best feeling combat in any ARPG I’ve played.
Have actual RPG elements to it is a start. And how the game starts is a really weak argument for the quality of the game overall, the wargs aren’t exactly threatening and patting them on the head makes them explode. Not exactly heroic now is it?
People have their opinion on what an ARPG is, based on all the other ARPG games out there. Grim Dawn is just one of them, Torclight 2, Victor Vran and Path of Exile being some. If a game calls itself an ARPG, it also has to accept being compared with other ARPGs out there, just like all other games in other genres has to accept.
I stopped reading this post when the OP felt the need to add in the title ‘‘by experienced player’’
“Why can’t they just remake D2, AGAIN”
“blah blah blah”.
7000hrs+ into D2…I just want to point out how ridiculous this is. I’ve had…up to 15,000 vs games on Tekken and I’m 2500hrs in (actually says on Steam+ it counts afk time I leave the game up).
Someone who plays a game, that is largely an “offline” experience for that long is going to be INCREDIBLY biased on what they think makes a good game.
The graphics are A-OK, nothing to say about that, and I didn’t have any stuttering issues while playing (once I actually got in that is). The reason combat felt odd might because I was testing it out as a necromancer, and things died before I even had to do something. I’m playing as a necromancer in Grim Dawn as well and things aren’t dying that quickly even with 8 skeletons and a behemoth out. I also tested as a druid and that felt just terrible, not difficult, it just took ages to kill things. The first boss was a drudge as druid and was melted as a necromancer.
Things may change as the game progresses and the combat might pick itself up. I hope it does and I’m not one of those gamers that judge the entire game based on the demo. Though it is a very important first impression.
What RPG elements are missing that are standard to an ARPG? As far as I know that’s pretty much just a weak narrow storyline and progressing your character. What are the amazing RPG elements that other games like D2R or PoE or Grim Dawn have?
Ah, yeah I’m sorry. I completely understand now. The low level state of Necro is completely busted and I’d have gotten super bored if that’s all I tried.
Grim Dawn per example have you select 2 classes, has point allocation for stats as well as devotion areas. When you have options to make customisation on your character and alter its path, then it becomes an RPG, i.e it becomes “you”. A lot of games I feel move away from that RPG part where you can build and experiment with your character.
Lets hope they make it a bit more challenging. Call me masochistic but there is something extremely fun about running around in circles kiting mobs around knowing that if you stop, you’re dead.
And you’re suppose to be weak at the start but Necro in D4 felt like you were Rambo. So yeah, might have been a poor choice of class. It’s a beta after all.
The anti-cooldown sentiment, especially from more notable community members like Llama (MrLlamaSC), is unsubstantiated.
If you have all skills with no cooldowns, then you don’t have, say, Iron Maelstrom ult. It’s cool, impactful. If it has no CD you just clear any lesser mobs, no challenge, or is the game now all about a single resource management?
You going to up mob resistance til the point where even spamming ult does them a mild annoyance? Then all skills have to do about the same amount of dmg?
Or you have PoE where combat is just nonstop blinking across the map and spamming 2 buttons to keep aura up and AOE nuke everything in an indistinguishable chaotic mess? Every build starts to look the same except the colour of the flashing lights.
What is it now?
This argument is terrible, and at its core seems to be a minority of ARPG/MMO player’s nostalgia and lack of mechanical skill.
Like?
I agree Diablo 4 does not do this as in depth as other games, but I think its still more than fine and will be a bit more complex than people are giving it credit for after only playing a low level beta. There’s a lot of people comparing that to the full endgame of other games that have been adding on features for years already after their release.
Personally I can think of a variety of builds for each D4 class that are all very different from eachother and that I’m looking forward to trying out. Now for people who just want to look up the best meta speedrager build to clear dungeons in record time, that’s probably not the case. But that’s on them.
Then in D4 your character has to do the shopping for an NPC.
Go down to the Pawn shop and get his stuff back for him.
Then in D4 your character has to run around town and talk to the friends of an NPC because, apparently, he can’t be bothered to do it himself.
Have you seen So-and-So?
Have you seen So-and-So?
Have you seen So-and-So?
You: Nobody has seen So-and-So.
NPC: I knew they wouldn’t.
You: scratches head
You: Then, why’d you make me walk all over town asking people if they’ve seen So-and-So???
D4 isn’t an A/rpg. D4 is a WOW-clone.
Oh, so not so different from Grim Dawn afterall. Guess they’re either both not an ARPG or they both are ARPGs.
Too bad the person I responded to didn’t supply any rigid indication for either
so true, but i did read a bit more.
Kinda funny that this experienced player didnt figured out in the beta, that there were many ways even in beta to reduce most cooldowns, to a level where they really felt smooth. Sometimes even too strong.
Look at the post above yours.
We’ll see when the game is released. Though the RPG element should be in there from the start, it’s in my opinion a core element that shouldn’t come later, it’s either there or it isn’t.
I’m curious how D4 solves the spells on talent tree thing, I don’t see it necessarily as a bad thing not having core skills to your character, since other games does that as well (like Grim Dawn). The problem is that you always seem to end up with a poor balance between the skills and you pretty much have to go with the cookie gutter build to even make it through the game. So the balance team at Blizzard has a lot of work to do if they want to avoid the “cookie gutter” trap that many games fall into.
TL:DR you are a diehard D2 fan and stuck in the past and you’re mad that D4 isn’t exactly like D2.
You literally just mention character progression systems that D4 already has in much of the same capacity except manual stat allocation.
2019-2021 D4 DID show manual stat allocation, but it wasn’t in the beta, which I regret, but this alone doesn’t define the ARPG genre.
EDIT: Unless you want to define the manual allocation of stats on a technicality that D4 has with items.
It may very well be that we get stat points with the paragon board, because there are tiles that have stat thresholds, and resistances and stats didn’t seem that important in the beta. So yeah. How do you distinguish that D4 is not ARPG like but somehow GD is?
It is though. You can start building your character in different directions from the beginning.
Sorry but this is a you issue. I was respecing constantly to try out different builds and sure some were better but many were viable and fun for different reasons. Its especially wierd to see you make this claim after you said you made a necro and never felt challenged. You can make pretty much any build you want with a necro and “make it through the game.”
I really like GD. But for example the combat feel and responsiveness in it, is a lot worse then d4.
That alone makes d4 better for me.
Since more content, will be added eventually into d4. Like most arpgs today they evolve. Grim Dawn didnt have all the stuff in it when it released. Star System was added, Faction System was added etc. These werent inside the game on release.
D4 doesn’t have the character progression systems that Grim Dawn has, that was my point. D4 have 1 of the 4 systems from the start, the skill tree selection. Grim Dawn has stat allocation, skill tree selection, class combination (from level 10) and devotion. All of which makes up a lot of choices you can do in terms of your character and how it builds and play out. Point being that you have options to make the character “yours”. That’s my idea of what the RPG element is about.
Indeed but you don’t have many options either.
You’re pretty much confirming what I claimed, i.e as you said “some where better”. That was my point as well, some builds are just not that good because of the balance decisions made by the developers. So many people end up looking up which skills to choose because they can’t be hassled with respeccing 200 times because the developers couldn’t figure out the balance on some skills.
Mind you this isn’t necessarily a D4 exclusive problem, but it’s a problem I feel developers should work a bit more on.
Devotion wasnt in GD at release.
And it is kinda funny on one side you ask for innovation, and then you say, it needs progression like game xy. So what is it?