Current state of melee rogues

That would be fine if other skills were treated the same way- but they’re not. Rapid Fire is supposed to be our single-target DPS skill right? That would mean it’s supposed to be bad at AOE- yet they just released a Unique ring to do exactly that making it just excellent all around. What about Barrage? Barrage should be equally a “mobbing” skill just like Flurry, yet it gets chance to hit twice and other buffs to boost it’s single-target DPS. Twisting Blades already has an aspect to make it viable in both single-target and AOE scenarios.

Flurry is the only one treated like this.

2 Likes

On Seasonal my stealth grenades are hitting up to 3.1 million on staggered boss, but my ball lightning Sorc still clears pit faster. Especially on bosses. Sorc also doesn’t have the clunkiness of trying to get back into stealth asap.

More importantly I’m not even sure the Flurry Grenade Ring is worth it. Stealth grenade’s hit much harder. You can also put the Evade/Shadow Step Grenade aspect on the neck and boots with extra evade charges. These are easier to proc and do decent damage. Adding additional grenade damage and trap cd tempers on the extra ring, makes getting back into stealth faster than the 2% lucky hit chance added with the flurry ring.

With the Frostbitten Aspect Grenades do stagger bosses extremely quick. I’ve got my smoke grenade cd down to 3.84 and using verve to turn it into a trap skill which exposure passive works on reducing the cd.

2 Likes

Sounds fine and all until you realize a single Victimize proc is for 300m+. How many stealth grenades must be dropped… scaling on builds is really bad across the classes. The meta builds this season are a bit on the boring side with basic attacks.

I love the Exposure death trap playstyle with grenades but without a gold multiplier somewhere it just isn’t working out.

3 Likes

I get what you saying, the way you have to play to deal damage with grenades is ridiculous compared to other builds. Other builds deal more damage faster as well.

2 Likes

Flurry needs a good base damage multiple and the build is fine at that point. The skill is extremely enjoyable to use but it falls of very hard.

Blizzard are simply not capable of balancing games these days. It’s one thing for an off the wall build to pop up and cause issues but the core known stuff should all be much closer than it is right now.

3 Likes

I just started back again and I find melee rogue a lot of fun but I’m skeptical it is ever going to catch up to ranged. Just the way you can kite and avoid damage with ranged, not to mention that blizzard gives umbrous to marksman skills even in the tb glory days a lot of these builds heavily reliant on that puncture which is ranged. Momentum is one of those skills that looks good on paper but seems really useless during live play, but I’m not sure what would be the fix, 30DR? More energy regen, I’m skeptical.

1 Like

If it doesn’t give a multiplicative dmg bonus, it’s useless for current content. It’s why ranged playstyle is best, both key passives scale insanely well. CQC is still ok since you can temper a good 140% bonus. Exposure and Momentum need actual damage boosts. Exposure could work if they redid No Witnesses maybe.

1 Like

After playing Amazon, Demon Hunter, and Rouge melee builds I find Rouge the weakest. Demon Hunter was far better, the only thing that killed the fun of DH melee for me was infinite scaling.

The problem is that we are approaching that scaling problem now in Diablo 4 with the pit.

Even in the limited scaling in Diablo 2 the Melee Amazon (Spearazon) was harder to gear and play and generally cleared lower content until perfect gear was obtained, and that always took forever. By contrast my full glass Pit Strafer (with full negative resistances) would be clearing infinitely faster, with much cheaper gear.

Flurry Rouge is great for helltides and lower pits, but falls off FAST due to scaling and monster damage, just like in all the other Diablo versions.

So this gap between melee and ranged is quite old in Diablo.

Like PoeticMotion stated above, Blizzard will most likely never solve this ranged vs melee problem.

Eh, I think melee will trend positively, just by how much is the issue. If Sabatauer Ring makes it where the grenades Flurry drops does way more damage or has a 15% LHC on top of the already 2% Lucky hit chance it gives to all grenades. Flurry+Exposure will be a solid build. Adam Jackson is playing Flurry this season and has noted that it was in F Tier. Ideally, playing Flurry will show him how far it is behind other core skills.

Twisting Blades is now the only core skill that doesn’t have 2 aspects or a Unique. Thus, the probability of TB getting a new legendary ability next season is fairly high. Poison Noxious Ice with CQC definitly has potential with TB, just need some solid TB tempers and light buffs to CQC.

To me Flurry Grenades’ and TB with CQC buffs is relatively easy layups for next season, its just a matter of if the Devs feel the same.

And just found this video where Flurry did T100 in 3 mins with Andariel. As I just stated, SMALL things like minor CQC buffs combined with poison looks me like an easy way to pump up Melee builds viablitly in a future season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_USH75ubV4

2 Likes

Unfortunately, it’s not a flurry build. It’s andariel’s build. And flurry is used there for AS buff, so that you can spam puncture more, spawn more bursting venom and get more andariel procs.

Fun fact. Andariel’s poison ticks there are stronger than a proper poison imbuement build.

3 Likes

Fair points, I see what your saying.

1 Like

Not a genuine Flurry build

1 Like

What I want is a pure Flurry build, where Flurry is the doing most of the damage and Encircling Blades is the aspect on your 2H, to be viable and considered B tier or higher.

  • Not Grenades using Flurry’s Ring
  • Not Andariel’s Flurry
  • Not Heartseeker with Flurry’s AS steroid
  • Not Rapid Fire/Flurry

Flurry.

1 Like

I agree, but the Andy’s build is pretty dope for now.

I was doing grenades and switched to Andy’s - infinitely smoother/better.

2 Likes

This may resonate with some of you, but i’ve been telling my friends the current Rogue isn’t even a Rogue anymore. Might as well rename the class to Hunter/Marksman with everything being dependent on ranged.

Just me, but when I imagine a rogue, I imagine a true Rogue such as two dagger and assassin type moves. In what fantasy does a Rogue use bows and crossbows as their main attacks?

1 Like

Gave up on the rogue again for 2nd season in a row. I only like the melee skills and am tired of Puncture/CQC gameplay. Please make Exposure and using Death Trap worth it with No Witnesses.

1 Like

You can play a more than OK semi melee build Andariel visage + noxious aspect poison build with puncture. Currently with non optimal gear my poison can tick for more than 50 millions damages when boss is stagger.

But I agree it’s a confidential build relying on a particular uber. It’s working but not thanks the class design itself. And the melee squishyness of rogue is a real problem after pit 80.

I don’t really consider a Puncture build melee though. Plus I’ve also always found it weird the one tree upgrade gives each knife a separate lucky hit, that feels like a bug. It’s a cool build though but just another one for season of the basic attacks.

Yup that’s why i call it semi-melee or half-melee cause you have to be close for andy face poison nova but not very close.
I agree that it would be more enjoyable to play it with TB or Flurry, but like you said it’s basic attacks season.
By the way you see that this build was not intended by blizz cause none of the class masteries is usefull for that build. Wich is pretty sad.

But at least I enjoy it more than ScKiss rapid fire build that I find pretty boring.