Curious where D4 is after a couple patches?

I am not going to come on here and harp about how bad the game felt in the beta and within the first season. It was bad enough to bore me into never returning until I have evidence that the game has had some life put into it.

My underlying issue with the game was the enemies scaling with your character as you progressed in levels… So the higher the level you were, the weaker your character would feel. If you managed to get some sort of gear for that level, it would make it feel the same as what you had before you leveled. I played D3 and genuinely enjoyed it from day one (even the auction house). D3 just felt… better? you could actually feel your character grow as you grinded for gear. D4 is beautiful but the mechanics are actually so bad.

TL;DR – have they fixed the enemy scaling?

4 Likes

Barbs still one shot the world boss.

Everything just falls over in open world content.

Its not fixed.

6 Likes

Curious where D4 is after a couple patches?

well, i guess youll have to wait and find out.

i for sure hope it doesnt go further down the d3 road.

4 Likes

Ok, thanks! I really hope they come to that realization with one of these patches.

If you are on seasons, check it out.

If you are on eternal, consider waiting to season 4 patch when we have some more workarounds on stash / aspect management and new itemization, which might cause a massive refarm of gear.

Other than that:
Clan, Trade, and Social support are still not completed (assuming that they are going to fleshed out to respectable degree for pragmatic level of usage).

1 Like

Game has an identity and vision crisis. It doenst know what it wants to do in future and it cant do what it has tried to do in past and it cant even do what works currently in D3.

One example was traps in S3. How this got out of the initial design phase is a mystery to me as anyone testing it could have seen traps on ground go completely invisible because they are hidden by ground effects. And even if this wasnt the case Diablo is a zoom zoom get loot game. Not a wait and memorize the traps so I can frogger my way through. That is contrary to everything diablo stands for. Kill enemy get loot. Just improve on that formula! Its a winning formula!!!

Another example is the absolute trainwreck of balance for hota barb.

Another example for me are goblins. Why do we only have 1 type? What a boring choice.

Last example for me is complete miss on skill tree. Two whole choices? D3 has what 6 runes for each skill. You cant even match that???

This game needs to start taking risks and do what works in diablo games. Rarity. Use it in everything. Rarity for dungeon sigil drops, rarity for events, rarity in cellars, diablo started rarity go with it! They could even add a rare type of helltide called infernal tide.

7 Likes

Agreed, I mean I personally enjoyed the community around power levelling and stuff. D4 seemed to have taken everything that was fun in D3 and remove it to increase the challenge… but in reality it made the game feel like a bland mobile game.

1 Like

S3 is generally not as well received as season 2. However if you stop in and find the game BAD, you’re probably wait til expac.

If it’s decent, you probably want to play onwards.

Of course there’s that issue of it being between BAD and decent - you may want to see what the QOL changes are for S4 or what the theme is to make the call.

players generally fall into 5 categories
Stop before 60 - lots of issues, what can I say.
Stop between 60-80 - this group of players generally find the end game unacceptable or boring and refuse to engage in it at all - repetitive play not for them.
Stop between 80-99 - levelling is tedious game is boring and unrewarding as gear tends not to be much better after you start getting ancestrals.
Stop at 100 - usually end game burn out / duriel burn out.
*** now there are a lot of players that have fun up to this point, then they realize…that’s all folks - which isn’t a bad thing per se - but expectation wise - most wanted/expected more - but the depth is lacking ****
Neverstop - roll multiple characters.

3 Likes

In response to your original post/question, it feels like a completely different game already from beta/pre-season, even S1. They made a ton of minor improvements since then all add up to the game feeling significantly smoother, faster, fun. Mount improvements, more stash boxes, updated vendor locations, lower tier loot dropping as salvage so your bags don’t fill up as quickly, a bit more end-game stuff to do like more bosses, way more XP gain so it’s not as grindy, more build balancing so every class is a bit more viable. Even though barbs can one-shot with HotA, every class has the strong right now.

The issue isn’t that it’s too hard or slow… It’s more like, the game lacks challenge, it lacks incentive and motivation, it lacks meaningful content, and it lacks build diversity. They fixed up a ton of what they already had, but it feels like it’s still in early access… They should’ve just released it calling it Early Access and I think that would set way more realistic expectations, but they came in with trumpets blaring like this is the great and mighty Diablo when only the campaign and stuff was really ironed out.

Like Urza said, the classes need like, waaaay more options. Like massive reworks to the game. From the ground up. It has the potential, they have the staff and the budget. But it’s like they’re too scared to task risks and be wrong, but that in itself is the wrong decision.

Right now, each class has about five builds that are all more or less centered around each of their core abilities, and there’s very little variation with how that will look player to player. They all only focus on one or two stats, maybe one or two elements/damage types, maybe a mvt ability and some defensive ones.

Minion builds have no minion abilities. You’re a Necro who can’t even control the dead and the skill tree actually makes you way stronger endgame by sacrificing all your minions than keeping them. They haven’t fixed that since beta. Where’s the bone armor, or minion teleport / bone surfing, or skeleton-charge, etc. You cant choose fire skeletons. There are unique items in the game that aren’t even viable in any build. There are paragon glyphs that aren’t used by anyone. There are still like, half of the skill tree for each class that are barely used in any build, and the only choices they give are very limited.

I loved the campaign, I still love the classes and think it’s very fun. I enjoy it a lot. I’ve put like 900 hrs into it so far. But end game is still empty… once you hit 100 and complete season journey, that’s really kind of about it until next season unless you wanna roll alts or play hardcore. But as very little connects btwn characters, and everything resets every season, even that can get old. There’s basically no reason to even play eternal realm. And despite it having an amazing console co-op experience and stuff, it has still very weak socialization options and no trading which just really makes it feel like, pretty empty when you find gear you can’t use and want to give to your friends & fam.

I think everyone basically agrees… season 2 gave us hope that the game could be really good. They really do some things right, but they totally miss on other things. Hopefully with how good Last Epoch’s build diversity is and PoE coming out soon, it’ll light a fire for them to really get inspired or get their rears in gear with the kind of fundamental changes needed.

6 Likes

Another thing - they have two different teams that alternate seasons, and a third team handling the expansion. I don’t wanna hate but S1 and 3 were really meh, S2 was really fun. So I think everyone is kind of holding on bc not only will S4 be by that same team, but the lead devs promised some major itemization reworks. I am hesitant to put too much stock in the fundamental changes the game really needs, that is prob a more realistic expectation/hope for the expansion set, but we will have to see what they do. It’ll prob be the biggest update patch of the game since release. They’re supposed to talk about it some at the campfire chat this Thursday.

2 Likes

Thank you for the in-depth response. Very insightful. I am shocked you have 900 hours in this game. I think I got to level 75 and that was torture.

Again, beautiful game visually but I HATE not feeling character growth and I feel like itemization and skill trees will help a ton with that. Maybe I will pop back for S4 or maybe watch some reviews on youtube or something.

2 Likes

Long short answer: Yes. They fixed enemy level scaling.

When the game launched it was perfectly fine.
They then listened to some feedback, some high profile click-bait tourist content creators who have video game < insert acronym for a condition I will not name > and rarely stick with 1 game for any length of time also → they Play for Clicks, Subs, Views, Likes and metric$ most of all.
D4 was the hot Hip-To-Hate game and that was a talking point they fed fuel to raise it from a campfire to a bonfire as the “Worst Problem”.
So Blizz nerfed enemy scaling and it was utterly atrocious for XP and trivial for combat.

They then Fixed what they broke-by-fixing what wasn’t broken from the get go - ie. They REVERTED the shortsighted, reactionary bandaid & unnecessary change.

We’re back to basically vanilla launch Level scaling barring the fact there is no longer Regions with fixed levels - the whole OverWorld scales to Character Level now(+3 for Helltides) no matter where one goes(not speaking about NMDs).

4 Likes

and yet here you are harping on about it

couple of days ago I was doing the world boss on the basic easy level and a 100 level barb came in and didn’t come close to one shotting it

Well isn’t that just a bag of mixed signals. This isn’t a post to check if it is still hip to hate the game, I genuinely wanted to know if it is fixed enough to the point where I don’t have to waste my limited hours of time at the end of my day to come play a game that has braindead design.

I don’t know why they thought it was a good idea to remove power levelling there should be a way to boost your character to max level within a couple of hours. It’s the grinding for specific loot that take ages to do. They could make it more punishing for the players that boosted to higher levels but instead they just locked every area to the same level of enemies as your character. Nothing more annoying than watching a lvl 1 player kill the same monsters you were killing at lvl 50 while struggling and grinding for gear.

There are so many other games out there in this world. I have high hopes in D4 producing something that appeals to the masses and right now it sounds like I have to wait and see what the future brings.

Vanilla launch isn’t good enough for me but for others it might.

1 Like

I’m a loot find guy myself and would have preferred this design.

I never played d2 but I heard it was easy to get to 90ish and it was the last 3 levels that was hard, but that was the end game.

D3 is definitely this way since getting the ancient version of your gear does take a grind (this was been calculated to about 80 to 100 hours), but you have a full set by the end of chapter 4 of season journey.

1 Like

I assure you that 1. I wasn’t implying YOU had anything to do with whatever. 2. Power leveling is easier than ever. Even with the XP changes. I can get you to 50 in a jiff, 70 quickly and 80 faster than before.
There’s also still “those dungeons” that one can rinse and repeat for focused, streamlined leveling albeit ignoring much else and relying on the scaled, throttled drops therein as they are scaled throughout ones journey up to a point.
Also - the Seasonal Themes for 2 Seasons so far have proven amazing sources of leveling. Last more so for gear heavy w solid xp and this current Season, I’d hazard to say, more for straight XP as the summoning requirements for the Special Event are much less than last Season, though gear ratio is much less(no handy, cheap 1 seeker key chests).

All in all it’s in a good spot - and some say TOO strong re: XP and leveling speed. Solo that is. Plvling? Breeze.
I was of the same mind when they put out the anti-power level treatise~reasoning: “we don’t want player to just stand at the door” - well that hasn’t changed. I doubt it could be changed without affecting XP in some wonky way.

2 Likes

Same here, I tried playing the remaster of D2 but I didn’t have the nostalgia that others had and the stamina pissed me off so I didn’t get far lol.

I’m curious why you prefer this design? I want to see some silver linings but man I wish they had areas where it made you feel accomplished that you got to a certain level and you don’t see normie lvl 1 accounts absolutely crushing the same mobs your own character has to kite lol

It’s not like it used to be.
The game is much more hashed out as far as everyone and their relatives knowing “the best spot for X”, “best build for leveling Y class”, “this method, that method” etc.

I run mostly solo.
Sorc was this season start class. she flew through with Firewall to around 70’s(I prob pushed it too long) - once I swapped to Blizz it was super fast farm time.
Leveling an Alt Druid presently who are notoriously slow at leveling but insane end game. Trick to it is sending him my Whisper Caches farmed with my main Druid.
He’s 47 rocking full Sacred with a 743+25 weapon.
Caches WT4 Caches opened with a lower lvl char drop 47 Sacred and 60 Ancestral. Come 60 he’s 100% ancestral.
I like this - personally after 2 self-leveled 100’s I don’t want to linger in ‘loot hunt so I can incrementally upgrade to level loop land’ as I’ll already be seeking end-game gear asap.
It’s a nice qol for alt characters.
Again with mains - knowing the … proper methods and sticking to them helps a LOT.
Take it from me: A true blue master of inefficiency and one who is easily distracted lol.
There’s guides(i know i know…) on everything. Every activity, every character, every build.
Even if averse to “build guides” per se - it’s beneficial to see what the meta magicians did to level up for example.
Once you get to your threshold - for arguments sake let’s say 75 - swap to your own thing and do your own build etc.

1 Like

Ah ok, well that’s not so bad. As long as it doesn’t feel like a chore to get to a point in the game where you are actually making meaningful decisions for your character. I like going fast enough where I don’t even want to look at the skills until I find some loot that somehow defines a build in a way and then use it as the piece to build around. Idk if that makes sense but I find it fun playing around with skills that are kind of shaped around keywords and effects. Kind of like building an MTG deck hah.

Yea I understand what you’re saying.
It WAS much more of a slog. It took a fair bit of time to level up and frankly I’m sad it’s so fast right now.
Want to know a common talking point and occasional complaint?
Of all things - “It sucks that I’m level 100 and my Glyphs aren’t even level 15”. Weird huh?
That’s how fast it is vs how it was before. Folks are 100 before more than a couple of Glyphs hit 15.
There’s also milestones and humps still which is nice.
Then… Get that one Aspect, that good weapon drop, challenge yourself and get to WT4 by 55-60 and hit the jackpot with an out-of-standard-itempower-throttling 875+ weapon and you’re good for a while.
Build defining loot is also still a thing. Knowing which Affixes scale properly with a given build is more important.
Used to be stack Crit Chance, Crit Dmg and Vuln. Generic stats no more. It’s much different now. Many other affixes matter much more while the oldy but goodies still count - IF they’re right for the build.
The hunt is very real for 3/4 items. Rings and Amulets drive me crazy. Get the right affixes and a good roll at Occultist and you’re golden because there’s synergy and utility or whatever.

2 Likes