The issue I personally have is that leveling stops being fun and becomes a chore around level 75 or so. And while I agree that level 100 is an option, it’s almost required for those attempting uber lillith and the battle pass has reaching that level as a pinnacle tier milestone so a lot of people try to reach it even though they’re not enjoying it.
As the two of you and I have mentioned, what happens while leveling matters and there currently isnt much to do lategame. Even in their season 2 presentation the gameplay loop for later levels is barren. And while I personally find the combat solid, it just can’t overcome the lack of content. The new bosses are a good start, though.
Additionally, if it turns out getting to 100 is too fast for your taste why not make a new character? If you enjoy the current gameplay loop but dont like faster progress, playing multiple characters seems like a valid alternative imo.
Slower progression speed, less insane power scaling, nerfs when nerfs are needed, etc.
All of which seems to abandoned.
It is not a chore because of the lvling speed though.
It is a chore because the content is bad.
Speeding things up wont change that.
And they did nothing at all to fix this Would have been a much better direction to go. Solo vs. group is extremely unbalanced.
True, but that is what should be fixed.
Lilith etc. should be killable well before 100 (also without exploits).
And the battle pass, as well as season journey, should not require anything close to 100 either.
Nothing in D2 required lvl 99, nor 98. That was a much better approach.
I am not someone who think D2 did everything better. D2 is filled to the brink with issues. But lvling worked well.
Sure.
Just a shame if endgame has to suffer for it.
Making alts was already an option before. Being bored with the lvling speed at lvl 80? Make an alt. That works regardless.
Tangentially separate of the leveling speed discussion, are the unique loot tables/weighted tables for bosses to target grind something that would help with this? I believe the unique tables apply both to the WT3 and WT4 bosses (different ilvl and sacred/etc status obviously), so as seasons advance and more bosses are potentially added to each bracket, creating more/different ways to target uniques, would this be something that would help with the alts? Potentially this would create a different leveling schema depending on class and targeted unique as you grind through WT3 towards 1-2 runs of a specific boss (and the specific methods of summoning them) before moving up a tier?
I am personally glad with this change. I am relatively new to this franchise and I don’t like starting over each season because I do not enjoy the leveling process. But I play this game with my husband and he does like the leveling process, that is why I will be playing with him again next season.
For me, the fun of the game really starts at max level, seeing both my character and her gear grow. I love seeing how my class (build) comes together with BiS gear (or as close to BiS gear as possible), love seeing those high numbers but also love to see how all my skills + paragon boards and aspects come together with my gear.
Another thing I enjoy is trying to get as much skills for my builds as possible. I don’t really like having only 6 skill buttons in this game (I come from mmo’s, I play FFXIV besides this game), I am fully aware that it’s the franchise and Diablo games in particular has always had this many skill buttons, therefore I like to make my builds with aspects that give me 1 or 2 more extra skills. I try to make best of the sitation as I can and this gives me joy in this game.
I’m really not sure. I have considered this but it’s one of those things I put on a brain shelf and said to myself: “Guess I’ll find out!”
I feel the same way about fidgeting with item seasonal sockets again. I don’t WANT to deal with that(and the inventory consequences) again but I’m willing to reserve judgement until I have experienced it.
I tend to value my opinions(go figure) but also try not to carve them into stone.
I agree with this overall, but my question is this: If I can complete everything by level 80, what’s the point of the next 20 levels when there’s nothing left to do? If the gameplay loop and combat is fun enough, then I can see myself trying to target farm, but currently that is not the case. At least for me. Obviously some people love the current game and leveling system as-is.
Higher lvl should still make things a little bit easier, but there doesn’t exactly need to be a point. It can just be some optional thing you might go for, like 99 was in D2. Just like there is no point to getting perfect gear.
The highest lvls are just something that you get while playing endgame. It should merely be part of the natural progression as you play the game, rather than the goal itself, or something that is needed for to do parts of the endgame.
I cannot agree more with this. But, let’s stop pretending and say it for how it actually is. People want to get to max lvl without putting effort to it. They want to see that number maxed out just because.
For people like us, levelling to 100 is an optional journey. For others, it’s a self sabotaging goal. A fallacy of “I reached max lvl therefore I beat the game, I am powerful and a good player”. These players actually feel they have to reach max lvl for some reason in order to enjoy the game. There’s no journey for them. It’s exactly what D3 has in place. Fast, garbage levelling and endless grinding. Literally the worst possible design. D4 was a breath of fresh air for many of us. I guess it’s only a matter of time they introduce infinite grinding to D4. After S2, I guarantee people will be begging for it.
This is Blizzard. If they had any insight on what people actually want, they would cater to the 90%. Except they don’t understand their own game and are out of touch, so you get flip flopping like what is the history with this game. At least they are starting to see some of the damage their previous ideas have had. Its a start.
There is no such thing as “what the 90% want”. You cant cater to 90%. It will always, without exception, end up as a bad game without a direction, in its hopeless attempt to please (nearly) everyone.
Flip flopping is exactly created by trying to give those 90% what they think they want.
It has nothing to do with drifting endlessly. Play an hour a day solo and see how long leveling takes for average people. Even doing dungeons it would take over 2 months.
They at least might get people back with this change. But loosing 90% is pretty much same as loosing 100 % to them. Dead game.
And let’s be honest you won’t quit because leveling is faster. If you do you don’t understand rpgs to begin with.
Point of the game is loot and feeling powerful not some boring leveling slog.
Why are you “insulting” (or calling people out) people that enjoy getting to 100 and getting everything at max?
I can insult people that enjoy leveling process to 80 and then stop playing the game too. You want to know how?
Getting to 80 is mindnumbingly boring, and you are not doing ANY activity to even use 2 braincells until you get to that point. This game is very easy, there are almost no (or none at all) boss mechanics until that level that require brain power.
What is so challenging about leveling? A 12 year old could do it. You just turn your brains off and attack monsters that’s it.
Whereas, after hitting 100, the real fun begins. You start to use that brain power in order to get good gear and challenge yourself to do as high tier Nightmare Dungeons as possible. Depending on your class and build things start to get spicy after tier 65+ or so.
I can understand if you disagree, I can also understand if you enjoy the leveling process (even though I don’t agree) but you can keep the conversation civil and respectful despite disagreeing with peoples playstyles.
Unless if you want an echo chamber, in that case you’re at the wrong place for it.
I love both of you to bits, you both have valid opinions, but this is a hilariously good example of a power fantasy and struggle fantasy gamer coming into conflict and too good to pass up identifying the object lesson.
Again, I agree, but I dont need to be easy or hard (though I prefer the latter); I just need it to be fun.
If I’m still having enough fun, then I’ll continue to play. I personally care much more about that than any other aspect: I stopped playing around level 80 over a month ago and didn’t bother completing the pass because I wasn’t having fun anymore.
NMDs were fine at first but after a few dozen it really starts to feel tedious/boring as that was the only consistent content available and I didnt find the combat fun enough to carry the game at that point.
Would have been a much better direction to go. Solo vs. group is extremely unbalanced.