Why would anyone read all this? If you can’t make your point in a paragraph you’re way overthinking it.
I said it when you posted your wall of text for the first time, and I’ll say it here again.
TL;DR
1 Like
There’s a reason I never read War and Peace - too long and I’d probably find it boring. Same principle applies here
I have to agree about the nerfs, I play this game for fun and enjoyment and relaxation. When i decide to go with a build and grind out the levels and make all the gear and start enjoying the play and just flat out destroying some monsters, it just does’nt get any better than that. I’ve been playing Diablo for a while now off and on since 1997. I’ve put alot of hours in grinding for gear, trading for good stuff, buying good stuff. So i guess i really can relate to what this person says when blizzard nerfs the build im running and turns my character to crap. Come on fellas , I don’t remember it ever being this bad before Diablo 3 . There are still a few of us die hards left out here , but yes it makes you want to quit when you nerf at will. It would be nice for a change if you would just leave things alone for the season and let us rock on. You still have a lot of loyal Diablo players out here,once in a while it would nice if that loyalty was shown in return.
I see this guy never quits, he wants Blizz to just apply the nerf to the new items that drop. Creating legacy gear that will be way superior to the gear that is currently dropping. This means that anyone that is new to the game or to the class will not have that gear in non season play. So those with that gear will be able to do higher GRs than the ones that are just getting that gear for the first time. Creating an unfair advantage for the ones that are either new to the game or the class.
He will not see that the only true problem is that they didn’t implement the nerf properly. Instead of applying a one second nerf to the items in question. They should’ve changed them where they would only affect channeling skills.
Then make other legendary powers that would increase non channeling skills for wizards. Along with removing the casting of an arcane spender from Etched Sigil since it would be for channeling only. Also buff the damage of both so they would actually help channeling. Maybe even add a damage reduction buff to Etched Sigil for channeling skills. Or even an auto cast teleport that would help move out of the way when channeling.
Maybe even add a legendary power that will give you an immunity to CC while channeling that lasts for x amount of seconds once every 30 seconds
That way wizards that want a channeling build can use those items. Whereas those that don’t can use other items. It destroys the bazooka Wizard while at the same time not hurting channeling builds. Plus it can even handle adding in new viable builds if done right.
What I am saying here is that wizards gear hasn’t been designed properly. it is the only class that I know of that there is only one set that I will play and that is DMO. And the only build that I would play would be the Frozen Orb one.
The reason is that the mechanics of Wizard sets and items are just not what they should be at all. I guess Blizz doesn’t really understand the wizard class at all.
I am sure that if the Witch Doctor’s new set needs a nerf then it will happen after the season and it won’t be anything like what happened to Wizards because their set and set mechanics are designed better imo.
While it is no doubt easy to clear a GR150 on a team, doing it solo without a huge OP seasonal buff is impossible.
When he sees that it is just the wrong type of nerf that would kill bazooka build. A type of build that has a play style that they don’t want to support.
There is a whole ton of stuff outside of the main issue that the OP doesn’t understand, nor does he care to understand.
Things like bugs, not all are created equally. Some are nigh impossible to reproduce good enough to find out what is causing the problem.
1 Like
I said I would not post new topics or comments, but I couldn’t overlook your “act of distorting the text”.
You distorted the next sentence in the original text.
Nowhere in the original text, it says “just apply nerf to new items that drop”.
Also, a normal person can sufficiently know that the content of the original text is “to find a method other than nerf.”
If you read the original text properly, you will never be able to distort it like that. (Do you have poor reading skills?)
Nevertheless, you have been playing with “words” over and over again.
Are you coming to the forum to play with “words”?
Is your main specialty a fake news producer?
What is your real purpose of distorting the content of the original text?
If you have many palms, you can cover the sky.
However, do you know that it is a very comical situation when you see it from the outside?
Rather, write “TL; DR”, like the comments of others up there.
Don’t play with “words”.
It’s not a skill, it’s not an ability.
Also, it is not the right attitude to engage in discussion.
You know what I have told you in that other thread.
What starting to flip flop on the issue.
There are two sides to the coin of nerfing and buffing.
If you never nerf when it is indeed needed and only buff.
While it might make the players feel great playing an OP build the damage to the game is not good. Players tend to gravitate towards those builds because they are the strongest. Leaving behind other good builds due to the fact that they are much weaker. It gets worse if the OP in question is of a play style that has either gotten boring because of lasting so long. Or is just not a fun play style.
Further it limits build diversity as well. Not having a baseline that is constant and never changing means that you will always keep upping the bar of performance with the next OP build till the day when All builds will be able to perform at GR150 at 5k paragon. When that happens there is no more challenge at all.
The leader boards will reflect it by showing all 1,000 spots as ones that have cleared a GR150. The only difference between all of them is how fast they have done it.
Instead of having damage multipliers in the tens of thousands we might have them in the hundreds of thousands.
This is what happens when you use the OP builds as a base to buff all other existing builds to. Power creep hits high gear as far as speed goes until the above is quit true.
Buffing the content won’t work either due to other game companies have tried it and it failed miserably. The shutdown game of City of Heroes had a similar issue. After level 32 everything was easy. Blasters where able to hit their damage cap. Tankers and Scrappers their defensive and damage resistance caps. Controllers had their holds. Empathy Defenders (healers) were not needed at that point.
NCsoft tried buffing the content, making the enemies harder to kill. All that did was punish the weaker builds of the game. Pushing those players to play the strongest builds in the game. That was no fun, and since they already told players that they won’t directly nerf the powers anymore. Plus add in the fact that they knew that they were gonna make playable villains archetypes. They decided to nerf the enhancements that buff the powers. The system that did that was enhancement diversification.
There is no other way to get the builds to perform at the baseline level of performance without nerfing. In the case of D3 that means a nerf to the items since it is the gear that makes our build what it is.
Now I mentioned in my comment that it isn’t the nerf that is the wrong way to go for Blizz. While a nerf was needed it is the way that they choose to do it that was wrong. What they needed to do was the make the items in question only work for channeling builds like the shoulders (Mantle of Channeling). Then make other legendaries that will buff other skills like Meteor, Hydra, Blizzard, etc…
To me the Wizard class seems to be a class that Blizz cannot understand how to capture the fantasy of a powerful spell caster. They have to add a bunch of quirky mechanics that doesn’t make some set fun to play imo. The only one that I would consider is the DMO set. Now if they give a lot of loving to Wizards in the future that can change. But till then that is the only set that I will play.
I guess you never seen how I would’ve handled the killing of the bazooka build. It is far easier than you think. Just make it where Death Wish and Etch Sigil only apply to channeling skills and maybe have an auto teleport on the Sigil.
It is because I don’t play the Yes Man/No Man game. Where I have zero opinions, thoughts, feelings, ideas, etc… on the matter. Sorry but I am no ones yes man or no man.
My experience that comes from playing more games than just the Diablo series. I have play a number of MMOs (martial art based ones), Runescape, City of Heroes, Marvel Heroes, Secret World Legends, etc… that I have seen things in those games. Things that have proven that the idea of never nerfing doesn’t help a game at all.
It just speeds up the power creep or punishes other under performing builds, hurts build diversity by keeping the OP build untouched.
There is no other way?
Read section # 5 “Two ways”.
I wrote it kindly for someone like you.
After reading the text, are you commenting like this?
Do you have any intention to think differently?
Why don’t you use your time to read, rather than use your time to write?
You will probably never learn that never nerfing always buffing will not help a game at all. Until you understand why this is the case. Then all of the words in the world won’t change your mind that never nerfing always buffing is the right way to go.
You will wind up staying blind to buffing as the cure instead of nerfing when it is needed and buffing when it is needed. All based on a level of performance set by Blizz.
Ok.
After all, your opinion is, “The game system needs periodic item nerfs.”
By the way, we don’t know when it is.
Let’s assume.
You’ve been working hard on “Bounties” for 3 months and today you finally have the option you want. Probably happy.
But when you woke up and the item suddenly changed.
It’s not the item you want to have anymore. It’s useless. (Being nerfed)
Then you think, “Yes, every item needs nerf periodically.”
What I want to ask is,
Do you agree that “item nerf” takes away “time and effort” from users?
Do you not even agree with this?
If you agree with this,
Do you agree that if the “item nerf” repeats regularly, more and more users feel disappointed and lost?
The items had to be nerfed BECAUSE they were mandatory in every single wizard build. Exactly for this reason they had to be nerfed retroactively.
PS: I’m kind of missing translations in danish, croatian and togolog 
First of all a game needs a baseline of performance for all builds. Blizz has told us their baseline is GR130 at 5k paragon. Then any build that is over performing by, IIRC, 5 GR levels will need to be nerfed. The ones that are under performing will get buffed.
When you go able getting all builds at that level of performance you need a two step approach 1,) You make sure that each class has at least one push build that can perform at that level. 2.) Then you use that push build to balance all of the other builds of the same class. That way all viable builds will be able to handle that baseline of performance and the game will be balanced as best as humanly possible.
It cannot be done by sheer buffing. Doing so keeps upping the bar of performance till the only difference between the builds will be how fast will each one do a GR150 solo (no OP’d seasonal buff).
It doesn’t matter how hard you worked at getting your items near perfect or perfect. In fact most players know that there will be a nerf coming to builds that are way OP’d and accept that it will happen at some time.
Also item nerfs are the only way to nerf. Trying to do so from the base damage of the skill won’t help either.
Thinking that items shouldn’t be touched because it took time to find them and get them there is a wrong way to think. You are not looking at things realistically. Gear is what makes the build. Now if it was the other way around then they might not need to nerf the gear but the skills associated with the build. But to do that would take many expansions to pull it off and we know Blizz won’t do that.
Look at the above and drop this silly straw man already it doesn’t work on me and you should know that by now.
If that time and effort is seen as just work then it would. But it would also mean the players are not having fun putting in that time and effort. If you are not having fun putting in the time and effort then why bother playing?
Spending time having fun putting the effort into the game to get what you want that could change in the next patch is what should really count. You are taking some things way too seriously.
You can’t answer this simple question, even if you agree or disagree.
Is there a reason to write it complicated?
Why?
Shocking.
This is why our conversation is out of sync.
In section # 5, even though I have shown enough examples of various methodologies, is there no need for “content buffing” in-game?
Isn’t it the mindset of a typical “unwilling developer”?
All he wrote can be summarized as “it doesn’t matter if they feel lost or not”. Because overall balance has a bigger priority than players feeling “special” in the eyes of developers.
1 Like
In the case of any OP’d build buffing content only punishes the weaker builds to the point where they are forced to play the strongest just to be able to play at the same level of performance that they did before the content buff. You are just to stubborn to see what I am saying is true. I have seen it happen in other online games.
The only other solution is to change the game where the gear no longer makes the build. But the chances of that happening are slim and none. Unless Blizz decides to throw D3 another expansion or two, not likely to happen gear will always make the build. So the only way to pull in the over performing build is to nerf.
In his eyes buffing is all that matters. Like buffing is the solution to the OP’d builds when we an other players know otherwise. Buffs without nerfs will never work no matter how you go about the buffing. When something is OP’d it has to get hit with the nerf bat and the majority of players know it.
They cannot be clueless to this either. When Wolcen Lords of Mayhem launched there were OP nodes and other things that were OP’d that players knew would in time get hit with the nerf bat. They knew it would be for the sake of the game. That without it you cannot have anything close to a balanced game.
In short,
- Blizzard needs to nerf periodically. (For GR130 with Paragon5k.)
- It doesn’t matter how much effort and time the user spends to get the item, or whether the user feels disappointed.
- If the user feels disappointed, the user is wrong. The user should have expected and accepted nerf enough.
- Talking about “another methodology (buff GR)” is useless in Diablo 3.
Did I understand correctly?
Agreed, but to add to it I would say that a person that is having fun will not be disappointed when the nerf comes. The only ones that would be disappointed are ones that look at playing the game as a job. Where they have no fun playing the game. Where they put so much emotional attachment to the equipment that they find and work at getting where they want it. That they forget the whole point at playing is to have fun. If they are having fun then it is okay when items need to be nerfed. They can say we had fun for a while with that OP build but now it is more in line with the other builds.
Now can I get you to agree with me that to kill the bazooka build the right way of doing it without destroying other builds would be to change the legendary powers of Death Wish and Etched Sigil where they would look like the following.
Death Wish
When channeling Arcane Turret, Ray of Frost and Disintegrate your channeling damage is increased by x%
Etched Sigil
While channeling Arcane Turret, Ray of Frost and Disintegrate your channeling damage is increased by x% and you get an 80% damage reduction while channeling that last for 5 seconds after channeling stops.
Drop the 1 second delay on Mantle of Channeling.
Then add in other legendary powers that would support channeling skills as well as other wizard skills and you would have what is needed.
Bazooka would be dead and new builds will emerge. Also you wouldn’t need to use both items for every build in the game.
The following is the section title of the original text.
-
Effects of the “Deathwish” / “Etched Sigil” / “Mantle of Channelling” patches
-
Wrong “How to get rid of the Bazooka Wizard”
That’s what you said I already explained in section # 2, section # 3. There are many other methodologies besides the one you mentioned. What you said is just one methodology.
The part that differs from me and you is not that part.
“It does n’t matter how much effort and time the user spends to get the item, or whether the user feels disappointed.”
This part is serious.
After the patch, many of the old wizards in my “Friends List” are currently not playing. They don’t even log in.
Of course, after the patch, no one plays the wizard in the “friend list”.
Even in public games, it is not easy to meet a wizard.
Are they all wrong?
It doesn’t matter?
At BlizzCon 2018, why were users disappointed?
What makes users disappointed at that time?
And, how many “dislikes” are on the Diablo immortal video now because of that disappointment?
If users were disappointed at that time, were users wrong?
This is because Blizzard showed that it was different from what users were expecting.
In your opinion, Blizzard hasn’t done anything wrong, are the users who were disappointed at that time wrong?
If the user feels disappointed, the user is wrong?
Users are customers.
It doesn’t matter whether the user feels disappointed or not, it doesn’t matter whether the customer leaves or not.
When users feel disappointed, they leave, whether small or large.
It’s a serious story.
Every company needs a customer. If there are no customers, it will fall.
Disappointing a customer is very dangerous, and doing so will leave the customer.
So all other companies try not to disappoint customers.
Still, this doesn’t matter?
Rather, was the customer feeling disappointed wrong?
By your logic, it means that it doesn’t matter whether Blizzard has lost customers.
Is that what you’re saying in the Diablo 3 forum?
What I am trying to say is that it is wrong to have items that will allow you to auto cast other non channeling skills. If you want to play a build that uses non channeling skills then there should be items that will appropriately buff the non channeling skills. While the items that are for channeling skills should only buff channeling skills.
The one thing you don’t know about me is that I would love to play a disintegrate wizard. Where the main dps’er is disintegrate. Under the old setup that isn’t possible to play such a build and push with it into the high to top tier GRs. It just isn’t strong enough.
This is where I am saying that Wizard gear needs some serious loving from the devs in the classic team. Where they need to change a lot of the mechanics of the gear. They seem to think that wizards are all about channeling skills instead of being able to do more than just channel.
This is what I am wanting them to change.
That is why to me the bazooka play style is something that has to go. Regardless of how challenging it is to play or maybe even for some how fun it is to play.
It is the same reason why the Critical Mass wizard build of years ago during vanilla had to go. That passive was removed which encouraged wizards to play other builds. Then the old nerf bat hit the WW barb build because it was the only other build that outside of the Critical Mass wizard build the majority of players were playing. Even though other builds could be used to clear Inferno.
Otherwise it must be used as a means to get Blizz to never nerf always buff. And if that is indeed the case then Blizz has their baseline all wrong. Instead of GR130 at 5k paragon base. It should be GR150 at 5k paragon as baseline. Where in time it would mean that players would be able to easily solo a GR150 on their own.
They would no longer need the help of other players. Multiplayer wouldn’t be used as much as it is right now.
In time the leader boards would all be about who clears GR150 the fastest. Instead of who clears the highest GR in the fastest time.
I wouldn’t doubt that if I checked the wizard forums and even posted an honest question there. That they wouldn’t disagree with what I have to say about the state of wizards even though I don’t play wizard as a main. In seasons I have played more WDs, Monks, and DH than Wizards.
I have no doubt that wizards in the wizard portion of the forums would say that Blizz wasn’t wrong about trying to kill the bazooka build. The problem is that they went the wrong way to kill the build.
I am sure that the majority on the wizard forums would say that it isn’t wrong to nerf builds when needed.
We both know why they were disappointed. Even I didn’t like the idea, and still don’t, that a Diablo game is on a platform that I won’t play it on. Even though there might be a workaround that would let me play it on my PC. I still won’t do it and was upset.
But a mobile game is hardly the same as killing one build that needed it. It doesn’t justify making gear and builds a sacred cow that should never be touched. Nerfing and buffing is an important part of game development. It leads to a balanced game with a lot of build diversity which is what players are wanting.
Again using the fact that a company needs customers as a justification to never nerf is wrong to do. It will mean that you will not have a good challenging game that is also well balanced. It just cannot happen with buffs alone and you know it and I think you just don’t want to admit it.
This is why you setup this crazy straw man of yours in order to get me to climb aboard and sit at Blizz’s doorstep till the baseline of GR150 at 5k paragon is reality. Then you wouldn’t have to worry about nerfing. Although the players playing would be bored to tears because there wouldn’t be anything that would truly challenge them.
It might even kill multiplayer but who cares those OP’d builds that shouldn’t have existed in the first place because it doesn’t truly capture the fantasy of the wizard class should be sacred cows that are never touched.
Or it gets worse than that, you are saying don’t dare say or do anything in any game or product you are making if it will disappoint one person. Because that one person will cause all players of Blizz’s game to quit forever. That would be a straw man and you know it.
There is something you are mistaken for.
Does this seem like such a simple problem as you think?
The wizard is designed to increase damage based on channeling in all settings (except chantodo). In addition to channeling items, all other set items, legend items, and skills are balanced with each other. The balance inside these wizard classes is not something we made. It was designed by Blizzard and balanced. So it is difficult to control, and there are users who enjoy it. Do you understand? That’s why almost all of the wizard’s settings have been affected since the 2.6.8 patch.
In your opinion, Blizzard should modify these channeling-based items “only for channeling”. To do this, all the set items, legend items, and skills of the wizard must be modified. Of course, new legendary items for each skill should also appear. Since the balance inside the wizard class changes, most of the wizard’s content needs to be modified and tested. It’s going to be even bigger than it is now.
In the current state, to make this kind of modification, it would be almost like creating a new class.
Wouldn’t it be better to do that in a new game in development?
Shouldn’t we talk about something that can actually be implemented?
Rather than your thoughts, [“Archon” and “StarPact” skills can’t be equipped on the skill bar at the same time]. This is much better. It’s a simple way to get rid of the Bazooka Wizard.
Anyway, you are now agreeing that “the way to apply nerf is wrong”.
You were disappointed too.
So, let’s apply your logic here?
Until Blizzard announced BlizzCon,
“What will come out this time?” It was fun thinking, wasn’t it?
If you had fun while waiting, isn’t that enough?
Why are you disappointed?
Did you consider BlizzCon like a job?
Below is what you wrote.
What is different?
Different kinds of disappointment?
Is your disappointment different from other users’ disappointment?
Disappointment is a natural phenomenon that occurs when you see something different from what you expect. Just because other users are disappointed, you can’t say it’s wrong. It’s that you shouldn’t say “wrong” about the disappointment of other users.
Anyone can be disappointed. If they see something different from their expectations.
And, all other companies are trying to “do not let users feel disappointed.” And that’s right.
By the way, what if Blizzard told you at BlizzCon, “We don’t care if you’re disappointed or not” ?
Can we stop playing with words?
Will you do more?
Patches such as 2.6.8 disappoint many users.
Therefore, these patches should never be repeated.
Of course, if they can fix it, it’s good to fix it.
In particular, if there are other “sufficient” methodologies besides these patches, they should be actively reviewed and applied.