Windows 11 coming in 2021!

Well…

Could you jump forward a year, tell us who will do / has done it first, and let us know?

3 Likes

It’s not so simple Meteor, that’s not like eating cherries. Where have you been btw, haven’t seen you in a while?

...

I miss the jokes.

What? Time drainages are cloudy these days?

1 Like

There is no such word.

RIP TPM 2.0 Required , How many gaming PCs actually have that

I’m hoping ASRock releases a firmware update enabling fTPM, otherwise I’ll have to acquire a hardware TPM which doesn’t seem to exist at the moment. :grimacing:

Edit: Contacted ASRock about my board, they showed me an “enabling fTPM for dummies” picture walkthrough. I felt like a noob for a few seconds. :laughing:
I had to go into the CPU features to enable the AMD fTPM, I couldn’t just do it through the “Trusted Computing” section of the firmware. Oh well. I thanked them and told them to keep ASRockin! :slight_smile:

Why are you so hyped about win11? Right now we have a lot of tests and w11 didn’t beat w10 by FPS. Sooo …why?

I am not particularly hyped about it, Windows 10 is decent enough, and there is a fair chance that Windows 11 will be worse.

The thing I am most interested in, is whether they will fix their Microsoft Store/Xbox app. Because that is a broken disaster in Windows 10 for some people. To the point where it probably shouldn’t be legal to sell content on it. Sounds like Win11 might have a new store though, and while that might not help, there is at least a potential.

1 Like

Apparently not many of you know that:

1: Boot secure mode can be enabled or disabled. And this has been available on a huge majority of motherboards/systems since Windows 8 was in Beta.

2: TPM is available on most motherboards but might be disabled in BIOS.

You need both of these features enabled to support Windows 8 and above correctly. If either of these are disabled, Windows 8-10 will still install and be supported, but will lack some security features. Windows 11 is just making this mandatory.

So.

You need to visit your system BIOS, look for the TPM and Secure boot settings.

You may also need to update the BIOS to the latest version available for your hardware. If you don’t know how to do this, have someone that knows how do it. You can brick your hardware if you do it wrong.

Now.

In some cases, enabling these may interfere with your system boot up and actually cause your system to stop booting properly. So be prepared for that scenario. This won’t happen for everyone though.

My Gen 7 Intel system supports secure boot and TPM. My 2nd generation i7 2600 system supports secure boot and TPM.

So…

Just something to keep in mind.

Just to add to this:

I checked the settings for this machine. My Secure Boot is enabled but TPM was disabled. Enabling it and setting it to PTT (use this unless you install a physical TPM device) actually caused my system to not boot.

So.

In my case, before I can upgrade to 11, I will need to reinstall 10 with both of these features enabled first.

And I suspect the same will be true for the older platform, unless its BIOS is too old to be compatible with 11 for some reason.

Windows 11 is coming this year, not next year.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/28/22553666/microsoft-windows-11-october-20th-release-date-hint-rumor

This will be the most likely scenario for people with already installed OSes. Turning TPM on after you’ve got an OS installed will almost certainly render that OS unbootable. Secure boot can be toggled on/off at will unless you installed the OS with it turned on already. Then it won’t boot with it off.

Those scenarios are the pitfalls of making this mandatory - clean installs are going to be required for the vast majority of people that don’t have TPM enabled (and installed if a physical module is required) already. Not that you shouldn’t be doing clean install + migration assistant anyway…

Yep

Good news is, if you have the option of TPM using PTT in the BIOS, you should be fine without an actual TPM device plugged in. PTT is Intel’s built-in TPM in the CPU (Intel’s Platform Trust Technology). An add-on would potentially add better security without impacting CPU performance but shouldn’t be required for 11 to function.

Once you enable Intel PTT or AMD PSP fTPM support in the BIOS, even if you do not have a dedicated TPM 2.0 module, the PC Health Check tool will still consider your hardware compatible with Windows 11.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-11-wont-work-without-a-tpm-what-you-need-to-know/

Where it gets tricky is with older hardware and BIOS revisions. They might still have all the options and should work even when enabled properly, but might not due to their older BIOS design. Which is why I suggested that some boards might need BIOS updates to render them more compatible with these features enabled.

Couple other things for people to keep in mind:

When you setup your system associated with a particular TPM, changing the TPM will most likely render the system unbootable and could even lead to data loss if you use encryption. This could also apply to those using PTT. If you change the CPU with PTT enabled, I believe it has the same effect as changing a TPM module while its enabled but I could be mistaken.

Eh, my PC is still booting just fine after turning TPM on.
For now. YOLO :partying_face:

Considering how many people probably went into BIOS to turn TPM on over the last week, due to Win11 announcement, I bet we would have seen a meltdown of the internet, if it made even a tiny amount of PCs unbootable.

Now, I have not tried to turn TPM off again. Not sure I dare try…
I made a complete backup of all my harddrives yesterday though :crazy_face:

1 Like

You can turn it on, but if you don’t enable the TPM (PTT for example) you actually didn’t turn it on yet.

When I did this, the system stopped booting.

My BIOS shows TPM enable/disable
Then shows PTT and fTPM (or some such) as options.

It would definitely change since the hardware key would be different. That’s the downside of TPM. Gets even worse if the TPM is done using embedded UEFI firmware in the drive, because those are the most common failure points and most frequently changed components. That’s why in order to use a new drive on a modern HP or Dell OEM system, even their Alienware line, you must disable TPM entirely or else the system won’t boot. They used some sort of backward messed up system like Apple uses now where the motherboard relies on the firmware from the drive to boot and without it, poof, non-bootable system that just became a brick. And since users can’t just copy firmware from one drive to another, as that would defeat any security in the system, you get tons of problems with not being able to use the system under defaults anymore once that drive fails. This is the real fear with Windows 11 making that mandatory. Those OEM systems will never be usable again at that point because Windows 11 mandates TPM, but if the drive fails, the TPM key associated with the system is permanently gone.

IMO this is Windows 11’s achille’s heel. Unless users have a fallback so they don’t lose data if a TPM module or drive fails, the OS is going to fail hard no matter how good it might be under the hood.

Yeah, that’s going to suck. So much for Consumer Right to Repair right?

Hopefully they won’t go full retard and force TPM modules only. At least if we have the PTT option it won’t be AS bad.

The module route, while an added expense, would actually be better because CPUs rarely fail as long as you aren’t doing bleeding edge overclocking and/or have properly applied TIM and a good cooling system on it, but if you do need to change out the CPU, especially for upgrades, there goes your data. This change has a lot more impact on the PC market than it looks like on the surface, especially in the DIY/custom build market.

Good point.

All in all, its still going to suck.

Ah, mine just shows dTPM or PTT. No overall TMP enable/disable.
Where I enabled PTT.

Yeah, no way I will get Win11 if there is a risk of data loss.

I still cant figure out of TPM actually can lead to data loss, or if it is only if you encrypt your drives with TPM active?

Well, if you are using an active TPM, its an underlying encryption. So changes to the system can result in the system not booting or potentially loss of access to data. Like if you changed out the TPM after getting everything set up, the system would not boot and if your drive is encrypted (bit locker for example) the data will be un-retrievable.

Looks like I will need to upgrade the CPU on this box before I reinstall Windows 10 to enable the TPM/PTT option. Secure boot is already enabled though.