Why will Diablo IV fail? [Q2]

General Discussion
1

Based on the most recent update for “Diablo IV”, I examined what was said and formed an opinion on the themes mentioned.

I found it very disappointing and certainly this game philosophy will end in a twin of Diablo III, and the reasons that make me think so are:

TEAM PLAYTEST

In this topic the team’s failure is evident: the team is making the game, playing the game, evaluating whether the game is fun or not.

It is OBVIOUS that the team is united around a goal, and that to achieve that goal they follow a path, a philosophy, a concept, and that is exactly where the danger lives.

When the games are played only by those who agree with the philosophy, the concept, the way in which the game is made it distorts the evaluation, generates a lack of critical sense and an addiction to viewing the content.

The great excitement with Diablo IV has passed, people are no longer super motivated with anything that is done just because it is something new after so long without any content (for those who do not have a cell phone), so the criticism has become more accentuated and the content shown caused a wave of unburden.

The team is blind, one is covering the other’s eyes and everyone is heading for the abyss.

A WORD ABOUT BLOCKOUT

The best discussion on this topic revolved around the navel of the model presented, this is the truth.

It’s so meaningless for an update that it doesn’t even deserve a comment.

STORYTELLING

Another topic that is completely irrelevant when we consider the majority discussions in forums around the world, perhaps they present this type of content in the update precisely because they still do not have a sense of what they are doing about the most demanded subjects here in the forum for example.

Another disappointment.

But regarding this content, there is still something to talk about. The real-time interactions can be interesting, as, as they said, they will introduce the characters in their armor, which will add more immersion to the game, or even humor, if I decide to present myself without pants, or with a hamburger in hand.

OPEN WORLD

As for this topic, we have something new: what is called “Open World” in Diablo IV is just the Diablo III Adventure Mode with a different name.

Advanced posts, secondary stories that totally escape the main storyline, a true thematic carnival that will end in the diatanciation of the player’s immersion.

But there are those who like it, even if this type of content reflects the poverty of the main story.

Once again the PVP was mentioned, and it is always referred to as “PVP areas or sub-areas”, in this sense it is correct to say that we will not have a PVP System, but only the Diablo III sub-PVP in some areas scattered around the map, it is a pity.

The mounts will be the new Wings of Diablo III. Apparently, the mounts will be the subject of various cosmetics, such as trophy holders and other things. Are people willing to pay for cosmetics for mounts? Will there be monetization? I don’t know yet, but it’s quite possible.

MULTIPLAYER

For those who wanted to play the game all by themselves this update was the end.

There will no longer be the classic hero business alone saving the world, you will play alone only in the most important moments of the game, as well as in the dungeons (if you want).

The game took on open world characteristics and that seems to be indisputable, so forget about offline mode.

It was also clear that world events can be completed individually, although they are more painful, which is very bad, as the player seeks efficiency, and this will force the player to look for strangers to save the world when, in the main story, he is the hero who is saving the world alone.

Apparently we will have a raid finder, that I think is good, since it is to transform into an MMO with identity problems, that do it right.

ITEMS AND PROGRESSION

Reading that part was a pain, really.

I really like the franchise, there are things that were announced that I don’t like but that are acceptable in the context of the philosophy of these new developers, but that part really hurt my soul.

What is the problem with this development team? Are you really trying to make a Diablo III DLC?

This forum and many other forums around the world have filled their discussion spaces with lots of great item ideas, great philosophies, great concepts, but it looks like the developers want a Diablo III 2.0.

It is completely absurd to base the game again on high CC (boot with 40% CC), restricting the possibilities of obtaining power to that, as in Diablo III, is something fearful.

It has items that completely define the gameplay, such as items that spend all the resource, thus revealing that the focus of the game has moved away from the character and has become a predefined combination of items and abilities that are likely to only work in one way (as in Diablo III)

Items completely out of the proposed reality at Blizzcon were presented and the magic ended, the characters were reduced again to just molds in which a predefined combination of items will fit. The path the team chooses is wrong and they refuse to listen to anyone.

I will not speak here of how ugly the items are because they are not yet finished, but since the items will certainly follow the direction of Diablo III, I regret it in advance.

As for the game being played out of the session, this is also true for the updates, as these items are giving me nightmares.

OTHER THOUGHTS

As I mentioned earlier, feedback from the team itself is like asking someone if their own opinions are right, it is feedback that suffers from a lack of credibility.

There is nothing more to comment on, except that the subject of music was much less mentioned than PVP, tree of skills, talents, among many others.

But I know you don’t really care about that.

That’s it, guys. For these and other reasons I think Diablo IV will fail, as development is taking place in a bubble of self-acceptance where everything is fun and fascinating.

18 Likes
2

It is sickening to see the D3 fanboys pressure them into ruining ANOTHER Diablo game.

15 Likes
3

Yeah… wasn’t that how D1 and D2 were developed?

In all seriousness… it sounds like what you wanted to hear was that they were inviting random schmucks to try out pre-alpha content so they could get feedback outside of their circle.

5 Likes
4

Things I learned today ?

Both camps are retarded for not even ATTEMPTING to realize what the devs did in D4 and why things were done the way they were

Reason ?, well probably cause it’s not an “experience based” intuition, the game has quite literally IT’S OWN RULES when it comes to defining impact/power, and quite frankly love the fact that they went the “extra distance” in distance in creating such a nice, promising and dynamic system, though slightly potentially scarce on types of “hit effects” ATM

It’s hard/er to realize, so hopefully there would be a detailed article about it in the near future so people don’t get “self trolled” by thinking about it traditionally (i.e. PvE) game. Instead, for one to understand the D4 itemisation, has to try to “perceive” it like a “PvP against mobs” type of game (i.e. each mob has it’s own “armor” stat that reduces the damag outcome of your character)

It’s new, it’s dynamic, it breaks every “convention” there is but gives much higher promise of character/gear customisation in the end, so kinda makes me feel bad to see people criticising the system without even knowing how/why it was designed like so

3 Likes
5

You cant make a game that is for everyone, so trying to stick to a certain game philosophy, making the game good for a group of people (such as the ones playtesting it) is a much better strategy. Rather have a game that is great for 1% of all players, than mediocre for everyone.

Sadly they are.

Certainly not how it looks so far. What is new and dynamic about it?

6

There is nothing new and dynamic about copying Diablo III items by adding more attributes.

The philosophy is the same, the concept is the same, it is an item defining the character, and not the character being completed by the item.

The margins for changing the gameplay of the items are absurd, that is a fact, whether you agree or not.

To call all the people in the world who are outside the development group of Diablo IV (Diablo III DLC), in all seriousness, is something that I will not even bother to contest.

You can think what you want, bye!

3 Likes
7

The amount of damage sources you’d have to use against late game mobs. Or even in general, your weapon won’t do the same damage always (but the damage per hit will depend on the defense rating of the mob)

Let’s say your ATK is 8k, but a mob DEF rating is 9k, that means your basic attack against it is no longer reliable UNLESS you rely in temporary buffs (either via gear or talent system) that buffs your ATK (or some negative/debuff effect that reduces the DEF of the target)

They introduced 2 relatively reliable sources of “additional damage” for such situations: the Hit-effects that each weapon has or elemental-damage socket which would not have damage blocked by higher DEF/armor rating of the mob but only by it’s resistance stats. Another (relatively small “on paper” on numbers but probably highly reliable damage source is the skill level itself, basically guaranteeing your character choice customisation)

Long story short - each mob has a “receiving damage factor” of it’s own. If it’s DEF rating is higher than your ATK then your basic attack won’t do damage unless it gets “buffed” somewhat. And yes, even the absurd numbers still hold the same rule: you might have a 100k ATK weapon (on paper :P), if the mob you hit has 101k DEF your basic attack does “diddly squat” :smiley:

That’s where the Crit comes (as a hit-effect), say you have 50% crit buff (either via talent or gear, or both), that makes your ATK at times when the crit procs to be 12k (which is higher than the DEF rating of the mob by 2k, meaning your crits would “slash” the mob for 2k when Crit procs, but otherwise you’d not deal damage, probably not even at all, like 1HP/hit most likely unless, UNLESS you find a way to “empower” your ATK rating via hit-effect, some buff, or simply debuff the DEF rating of the mob to be lower than your ATK :P)

Other “reliable” sources of making damage work might be things like “increase ATK against CC impaired mobs” (but some of them might have high CC duration reduced), e.t.c. long-story short it ends up being a bit of “cat and mouse” game where not just gear but current “buff/debuff” status would also play quite a role. The “key point” is about making sure you have enough damage-sources that you can rely upon

The reason why I like it is cause, well, there is the skill tree, those things won’t get reduced by the DEF rating of the mob (except if it has some special affix that reduces damage taken by X type of source :slight_smile: )

1 Like
8

Can you rephrase this so it makes sense?

Don’t need you to tell me that. But if you aren’t willing to discuss what you posted, then why did you bother to post it?

2 Likes
9

Where was this system, exactly as you mention, announced?

Did I miss something?

10

It’s my observation tbh, pretty sure that’s how it works though they never officially made it clear :slight_smile:

Hope there’s an article about it cause it really drives people crazy with the “numbers” but if you compare the late game items, the weapons have around or over 8k atk and the armors have it around 2.5k (and gloves have maybe 600), thus resulting in slightly over or around 8k (thus the “goal” being late game dps per hit being around 500 give or take in PvP, and probably something like 1k against mobs)

That’s how I came to the conclusion. I mean, doesn’t make sense to the RPG guys, it’s more of a “card game calculation battle” sort-of approach

1 Like
11

Too often people take this stuff too black and white. I often feel if some had their way the series would never progress.

I’d rather have them try new things. Some times they hit some times they miss, but at least they try.

5 Likes
12

Where is that said?

And same for this.

Anyway, even a game that worked this way, does not seem particularly new or dynamic.
It is basically how Pillars of Eternity damage reduction works, and D&D as well. Which to be fair, is not a bad thing, as Pillars of Eternity has a great combat system, although probably not fitting for an A-RPG.

13

But I did not criticize the numbers, although I have criticisms about that.

I criticized the way the items interact with the characters.

We already discussed this in another topic, I don’t know if you remember, but I disagree with the super customization of the items. I would like all triggers to be generic, and for more triggers to be added, I’m against on the use of a specific ability to trigger an effect, but I am in favor of any ability triggering an effect.

In addition, it was clear that some constructions will be based on a glove or a boot, as their effects are really very modifying. That is why I disagree with the path they are taking, because the character must be the center of everything, the main power must come from him, and not from a glove.

I understand and respect your point, but I disagree with everything. haha

1 Like
14

Yep, as the Devs said they tried different things from different games and tested what works what doesn’t. My problem might be though how people could get confused unless there was a hover/indicator of monster DEF rating and your damage with your currently equipped weapon

TBH I never knew such a system existed. Even better then, it’s got potential and kinda like it tbh :slight_smile:

And, they never made it official but made me curious why the ATK rating of the weapon was 800 ish or 8000 ish and the armor pieces had 250-ish or 2500 ish armor, and then kinda concluded the relation :smiley:

@Pegaso (sry, not having INTL installed :P), on paper sounds like really important thing but not quite. You’ll STILL rely upon your SkillTree points for damage for highly-reliable non-primary-hit damage and you’ll STILL rely upon your buffs (or target debuffs) to do selected type of impact in selected time period. Which ofc. SOME OF IT will come through gear, but SOME will come from the talent tree of the class itself, and, again, the SKILL damage is 100% your own customisation, it’s only the primary-damage (and hit-procs) that would depend on gear, which is a fair trade overall

EDIT: Some further conclusions about the ATK/DEF system that kinda wrote from before

15

Lol Einstein doesn’t know what “alpha” and “all subject to change” means.

3 Likes
16

100% agree on the items part. Items like that are again way too impactful and strapping off a glove will make a char useless again, just as in D3.

It is really not that hard to understand, that items are not the only motivation and reward in D2 and that this is the main reason, why people still play it.

In D4 it seems like the devs STILL don’t get, what is important for the longevity of the game. I also think these items are pure disappointment.

4 Likes
17

Why sadly ?!? What’s wrong in paying for cosmetics?! Do you want another D3 in the long run where in 2+ years we had no real content ?

6 Likes
18

Good for Blizzard, and good for everyone else who might get more content paid by horse armors.
Still quite sad that people want to pay for it imo.

Well, and also bad, when the microtransactions affects gameplay design.
Like; making sure all normal in-game items are ugly, so you can sell transmogs. Or adding forced multiplayer, so you can make sure players meet others who are using cosmetic items, as walking advertisement.

19

I will take “ugly” armor if they will use the money from “nice armors” to create game play content any day. If you are “sad” that you armor is not …“shine” enough, maybe go play MU Online ?!

It blows my mind that there are people like you who are against cosmetics micro transactions yet, you are first to complain that there is no content while they get no additional revenues to keep the content going.

Selling cosmetics SHOULD of been a norm in D3 so they could release solid content and not some +/- damage on some items every 3 months.

2 Likes
20

Well
Look at PoE
I am a person for aesthetics and this game is just ugly AF, selling hundreds of cosmetics

4 Likes