Why doesnt Blizzard let the people decide?

Which is the point of this argument : the subjective opinion of players in general. For RoS, unlike D3, I don’t think there was so much bombing, most of desappointed fans had already left the ship.
Just to point this out : I would give a 8/10 to RoS.

Yes, multiplayer is not very good in PoE, not just endgame.

Really? You claimed user opinions are the only objective piece of evidence there is. I’m not claiming you think D3 is bad or anything, just user scores are unreliable with the ease of bombing, and there was a very public bombing of D3.

It’s fine in the early parts… I often did it for bosses and quests.

But the endgame involves maps, and maps have 6 portals. And since you don’t get more portals in multiplayer, that means that having more players equals less loot. It’s a stupid design and I don’t know why they haven’t changed it, but I feel it’s largely the reason multiplayer is almost nonexistent.

I meant the subjective nature of opinions has nothing to do with the objective (as imperfect as objectivity can be) facts of ratings which provide a consensus of opinions. A game has to be judged by the enjoyment it provides imo.
D3 was bombed, RoS not so much I believe (but still a little bit I agree).

An awful feature, even for solo ! :sweat_smile: Meant to avoid players zerging a map boss, but a very bad solution anyway.

Not really, since only some people bother giving user scores.

Yes, at least enjoyment in a broad sense. Like a game might potentially make you sad or angry, but if that was the purpose, that could be an enjoyable experience.

Really? I kinda wish D3 GRifts were more like that. If you die a few times, or maybe at all, you are out. Dying should matter.

Still a glimpse of what people think. Much like opinion polls, not exact but not completely off either.

I agree but there are better ways to do it, like resettling boss life. The portal limit of PoE is just annoying for other reasons than dying.
In D3 there is already a death penalty in GR.

Any scientific opinion poll is trying to be representative though. User scores are not.

Resetting boss life is hardly making death matter. That is even less of a penalty than D3 got.
Every single death should matter a great deal (like losing a large MF bonus on death), but multiple deaths in a dungeon should reset the whole dungeon imo. Instead of supporting graveyard zerging.

But ratings aren’t objective at all they are all 100% base on subjective opinions. And I bet when you take away all the bombs from D3 the user score is similar tonthe critic or D2 user score.

Attempting to use a flawed subjective system as a basis for objective fact is frankly asinine. You even admit there was bombing, which lowers a score and yet still want to hold on to that biased user score as objective facts.

Same reason the people don’t fly an airliner, run a railroad or fight crime. Even in a simple democracy, someone still has to ultimately be in charge and responsible.

I think we do to some degree. We come here on the forums,etc and post opinions that influence the devs when they read them.

I think a vote would be pretty flawed though because voting doesn’t identify the people who understand the issue correctly - A lot of people may select a particular option for reasons such as nostalgia,desire of personal gain or conforming with established norms.

This could lead to a lot of feedback that is itself based on assumptions that are not true or don’t have the whole picture.

So if they did want to collect information to make this decision, they would be better served to ask people how they may feel about the impact of the decision and if they would appreciate that impact or be upset with it.
(ie, how progression would be affected by trade,etc)

So just to understand what decision they should make on this one topic they would probably need to do a more involved questionnaire and try to get a representative sample.

I do hope they intend to get some of this information from the community because while ultimately the D4 team will make the decision, they will be better served if they are informed on community desire.

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Thing is players often say one thing and do another. I know they rely mainly on analytics of what people do while playing. That dies run into issues as som people do certain things because they feel “forced” not because they enjoy it.

But viewing discussion threads, twitter feedback and other means can help once all the static is filtered out. But taking a poll on a forum is not in any way a good way to develop a game.

Best way to identify problems and how people do things is to watch, not ask them. There are so many things I probably do out of habit that I would want done to work with my play style but that’s just because that’s all I’ve ever played…

Ask an ergonomics expert about how you sit, extend your arms, place your wrists, what kind of chair your using…and you’d be surprised on what is not correct…but yet your just fine doing what you always do until maybe later when your older and it catches up to you.

I see it like this. If I go out to eat at a restaurant (well used to) i want to taste what dishes they make…not what I make at home.

In timed dungeons, it is. ^^ Otherwise, there should be a global penalty for death, not just for dungeons. The specific problem of PoE in that regard is that once you’ve lost all your level experience, you have nothing else to loose.

Judging a piece of entertainment is always mostly subjective, I don’t know why you imply it could be otherwise.
What I’m talking about is how these games are received, so what the average opinion is, and for that I can’t find a better, or lessed flawed, system than users score. If you know anything better, feel free to share.

Guess you are referring to low drop rates? This is not a problem with trade per se but PoE drop rates.

Can’t blame trade for that. D2 as a comparison has got quite a bit higher drop rates than PoE and trade flourished all the same.

The exception would be D3 with absurd high nonsensical drop rates to the point every legendary item feels like a burden to pick up after some time and a character is geared after a few days. Indeed trade makes no sense in D3 context. But that is a fundamental issue with D3 design.

I take it you didn’t trade much in PoE? Otherwise you would know the pain of AFK trade that is PoE. Despite the cumbersome process trade still going strong.

An in-game trade automated system, AH etc is a popular request because it would make a world of difference in that game.

Wait, what? :grinning:

Did you even play Diablo 2 battle net? Trade + PvP was the very lifeblood of the D2 online end-game experience. It is the reason it is still played today online.

False. PoE is popular because it is currently the best ‘‘modern’’ isometric ARPG online(I personally think D2 is a lot better, i even prefer Grim Dawn as a game) got excellent reviews etc. Besides everyone that actually plays that game knows it isn’t free, good luck playing without at least buying basic stash space. It is a requirement and GGG often criticized for it.

No never played online, but in totality of players, relatively few traded. Brevik even mentioned trading was done so rarely overall, that he wished he thought of adding an AH to make trade easier so more would participate.

Impossible to tell, but if the base game had to be bought, I’d bet my retirement it would have significantly less players. Would it still be a good game and popular? Absolutely. I have never mad they claim it isn’t a good game. But you vastly underestimate the amount of cheap gamers out there.

I joke saying HL3 would bomb because everyone would wait for it to go on sale, but really a lot of it’s popularity has to do with it being free.

I mean you only have to create 1 character, take him to hell- mode to realise half the games or more are trade games(with ‘‘real’’ people participating, not bots). Trade is everywhere even in PvP games and friendly private games, bot g ames etc.

This was true also back in the days, i think Brevik must have been High or something when he said that, in fact a ridiculous statement, trade was ‘‘the’’ culture online (Yet if you could be so kind to provide this quote, would be much appreciated)

Indeed so you can’t tell how much of an impact trade has, all we can observe is that trade league pretty much is PoE, always has been, SSF added much later.

Agreed. If you ask me, I feel that critic and user score are pointless because what determine the game’s fate and potential sequel is always lies on sales alone. This can be said the same for movies as well.

No point if the game has 100 Score for critics and users but only sell like 1000 units while another with 50 scores for critics and 60 user scores sell 1000000 units. But of course, in perfect world, a game/movie with 100 Critic and User score can sell for 1000000 units are the best outcome.

and then you are talking hundreds to low thousands of players from a pool of at least 4M. Like I said relatively few. It’s all about perspective. And yes seeing a few hundred to a few thousand people online and trading looks huge to the individual, but out of millions it’s relatively few.

I’ve been trying to find that rabbit hole of Brevik interviews I heard it in. Will do so when I find it.

When the game is based around it, it is well known that trading is a big part of gearing up, and online trading mode is the only mode available, of course trading will be huge. In D2, most had not clue the games drop rates were based around trading for gear. If they did, I be more would have played online and participated.

Big reason why I haven’t bothered looking at score since I think maybe the NES days is becasue more often than not they never reflect how I feel about the game/movie, and sets a bias before I even consume it. I just read previews and seek information about games I’m interested in and make purchases based on that or if it looks like something I may like.

Point is for D3, 31M+ bought the game. If all the D2 players that didn’t like it didn’t buy it it still would have been one of the top selling PC games ever. And bad games do not sell.

D2 was all about auto bots you mean xD trading was fun though.