the point is, its not only about damage and defense
str increases the damage, attack increases your chance to hit at all
same with dex and vitality
dex increases your chance to evade (not being hit at all) and vitality increases your hitpoints so you just dont take that much damage, when hit
this might be confusing to you, but its the core of any good rpg
its up to the player, to deside HOW he wants his charater to be like
an assasine that evades all attacks and deals a lot of critical hits?
or a tank ,that takes all the hits but doesnt care, because of all his HP and regeneration
it makes your character feel special and individual and it also increases the diversity of builds
as someone else above mentioned: soon, there will only be 1 stat: “good”
and then, the genre is ultimately dead
Read the whole thread. The conversation seems to go in circles.
Lets try to reason this out:
If the stats do only one and same thing (or multiple but same things) then there is no need for them. Why in the world does diablo 2 have vitality and life. The only reason for vitality to exist, is to give life. It does nothing outside of this. Therefore, it is a useless stat.
However, when we add more stuff to this experiment in vacuum, it might actually matter. If there are items that do something based on the vitality stat, then it becomes relevant. Mayby regeneration is % based on character vitality and not life. Thefore you could have a character that has high rate of regeration, because it has more items that give vitality rather than life. Then you would have to balance out how much regeration and life you want.
I already hear you say, “why not make the stats Life and Regeration then”
Well if there is an item that does something more, say damage based on your vitality, then it is no longer the same.
(vitality and regeneration is not the same, because items might give you only regeration specifically).
So the trick is here.
- Whenever you can remove a useless stat, do it. (only does one thing)
- Whenever you remove a stat from the game, you eliminate possibilities of any cross effects that it might be made to work with other stats.
Then it is only a matter of how intricate web of stats and effects you want to build.
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Yes let’s keep the game dumbed down for the masses. Why make something more interesting and complex when it can just be attack/defense…
Yes, good points all around.
well this is actually a lot more than just “attack” and “defense”, already
It is. Honestly I think people are doing ‘the good cause’ a disservice by seriously arguing that the system is only attack/defense (and people clearly are doing that on these forums). The Attack/defense system has some serious problems, but it becomes so much easier for Blizzard to dismiss it as a small group of whiners or trolls, when the facts are just not true.
Because strength, dex, int, vit is not interesting or complex. It’s bog standard rinse repeat system that hasn’t changed and isn’t interesting in the least.
Id rather them experiment with something new than just rehash things already done a million times in rpgs which always just amounts to small incremental damage boosts or sustain boosts.
If I wasn’t lazy I’d write out my idea for a stat system but … eh.
There is no difference between str, intl, and dex compared to attack, defense, and life aside from one thing.
One grouping of stats limits the use to other classes, and one grouping does not.
In 2019 (okay 2021/2022) I do not want to be playing the following; Inventory Tetris, a wish for a brighter torch, if only that dropped in dexterity, or my favorite “If only I spec’d a little more strength for that heavy chest”…
Those are very old and dated mechanics that do not add a layer of growth and character, they add a layer of frustration.
It doesn’t happen often on these forums, but damn, I actually think I agree with nearly all of that.
That doesn’t make the current attack/defense stats any better of course, slightly beating D3 main stats is not particularly impressive. It is still weird those stats are on every item. And if attack/defense replaces more than just those mainstats it is at the cost of depth.
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The only thing that Str/Int/Dex system did - is prevented you from sharing gear when playing with a friend of unmatching class.
Otherwise, it’s literally the same “+X Power” stat, only more convoluted and hidden behind an obscure formula.
The only difference was that they converted into slightly different defense stats - like int into resistance, dex into dodge, etc. But that doesn’t really matter, because there’s no way you’re ever gonna wear Int gear as barb for that resistance. It’s a useless information bloat, basically.
In D2 main stat was used as a requirement to wear certain gear. But personally, I’m quite glad that this is a thing of the past. More gear to wear = more variety of builds = more fun.
Attack and Defense are mandatory on all items much the same that main stat and vitality are in D3 and other ARPG games.
What it appeared to be was that normals had no tirtiary, magic had 1-2, and rare will have 3-???
All the rares they showed had 3 affixes I believe, and David Kim did mention that all the classic affixes will be in D4 such as Movespeed, crit chance, CDR, etc… so I doubt they will have attack and defense come at the expense of other stats on gear.
OP just wants to play clicker hero. Blizzard seems to want to compete with clicker hero. It’s a fun game, I’m not knocking it.
But Diablo is not supposed to be an incremental game. It’s an ARPG with character customization.
It’s just a completely different genre, and it’s disappointing that Blizzard is so confused about why people like Diablo 2.
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There are plenty of items in D3 where main stat and/or vitality is not wanted.
Not really though.
In Softcore, you want main stat on every item aside from jewelry
In Hardcore, same as Softcore with the addition of, you want vitality on every item except for jewelry
Especially in hardcore, you need a stable amount of health to avoid those one shots that proc your cheat death. You can begin to drop off some vitality as your paragon climbs, but you will want a steady amount until your defense prevents that one shot based on your current health pool and DR.
Which is 3 of your items where you dont want main stat. And more where you dont want vit. Also not uncommon to skip main stat on a weapon.
With Attack/defense, the choice is not there.
I think having just attack/defense is a lazy solution. It could work and I could be wrong. But I’d prefer having the choice of choosing between the 5 attributes of STR/DEX/INT/VIT and having every attribute be usefull for every class, not just completely useless for 2/3rds of classes like in Diablo 3. Where in diablo 2 dex was important for everyone, so was having energy, so way having str for gear, and most importantly vit.
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Really, they should make it so all attributes matter to all classes in differing ways, based on the build you’re wanting to design.
This.
I understand that OP said the atk/def showed for d4 was basically the stats of d3, and yeah, pretty much. However d3 stats are terrible, not even an example of char stats.
When d3 launched they were really bad, but at least they have some (near to nothing) impact to all characters, like dex evade chance.
Then difficulty was revised and they were dumbled down (even more) , becoming a bandaid that screams damage only in the game.
So, while you can have atack/def as a sum of factors like stats and mods, this system alone just doesn’t have the weight to support a depth char customisation.
TL;DR: if you have a stats/attributes compared to the ones in D3 you are doing it wrong.
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I hope this sentence never makes an appearance in D4. Cheat death skills should not exist, as it kinda defeats the purpose of hardcore. If you proc, just sit in town until the cooldown is done. Bah, made me not play hardcore cause it felt so lame, yet felt like you were gimping yourself if you didn’t use it.
No Cheat death skills/talents!
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New system is better.
Why:
Mainstat / Attackspeed / WD make your DPS in D3 (roughly) which is shown to us.
Means: “Attack”
Mainstat/ Vitality/Regeneration/Resistances/ make your Toughness.
Means: “Defense”
You spare a lot of stats slots which you can use now for better purposes.
They will bring their own complexity with them.
OP: So are you saying that the Diablo IV way of doing it will help PvP balance easier; and that the current Diablo III system is why PvP was never introduced?