I actually went back and looked at mine (it’s been a while) and the rolls are a lot worse than I thought haha
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But only when the right skills are activated all at the same time right? Otherwise the block chance dips to around 75-80% from memory. I’ll need to check my Invokers build but I seem to recall the build only going above 100% block chance for a short window only.
But yeah, that was the idea… the block chance only over 100% for a small window, but would make working/speccing towards having that window of invincibility worthwhile and interesting. As it is, saders get less DR from justice lantern than Wiz and Barbs can get from their DR rings. It’s not a rewarding experience for the more limiting speccing requirements.
Invoker can easily reach and maintain 100% block chance at all times.
JL is worth 16% block chance.
Blood Brother is 20% block chance.
Shields are worth up to 31% with block enchant.
Hold Your Ground is worth another 30%.
Punish is another 15%.
That’s 112% block chance total (which I think the game caps at 100%). So it’s not ‘only when the right skills are active.’ And guess what? At 100% damage reduction at all times, ALL other DR sources become completely irrelevant. Any value, no matter how large, when reduced by 100% is 0. Armor doesn’t matter. Resists don’t matter. Heck, even without Punish, that’s still 97% DR, which is an order of magnitude stronger than what any other class can achieve WITH defensive cooldowns (outside of total damage immunity, obviously). It should go without saying the idea you in mind for JL is far too powerful.
30% DR base + 55% of your block chance tops out at 85% with punish, or 55-75% for more typical Sader builds, ie something more reasonable and roughly what Saders need.
Fair point.
I remembered incorrectly and thought there was a few skills similar to Provoke/Hit Me that provided a block chance boost for a short window. Been too long since I last geared up straight Invokers build.
Yeah, if it’s perma 100% block chance then a 1:1 block chance to DR ratio is just insta god mode and NOT what I’m asking for. I only wanted intermittent god mode to make the gearing inflexibility worth it.
Maybe bumping JL to providing DR as a 1:1 reflection of block chance but capping at 80% will be the better option… it’ll make specs a little bit more flexible.
Well, ideally, I’d like to see JL revamped to offer DR equivalent to block or dodge chance and capped at 80%… that would give Monks an option for DR rings potentially.
I would put a stacking buff on it instead, granting 25% per stack, lasting for 3 seconds, stacking additivly up to three times. You gain a stack every time you block, and the stacks don’t refresh.
That way, you should aim for a decent amount to keep up the stacks, but you wouldn’t need 100% block to maximize the effect. 50% would be enough to keep yourself protected when standing in packs.
LostSoul, i don’t think that bloodbrother is a solid option. If we do not incude it into math we will get (in the ideal variant): 92%. So we better need to do any math with 90% as an avearage high number of Block chance.
Also they already capped BC at 100%. Later i can put BB in my build ang get over 100% number and this number was calculated with JL very good. In two words: later we can get more DR from JL. Now 55% …that is not enough.
IDK how good BB for Invoker, but i use for pushing a6i2ccNorv and there is no place for BB, because better choice is AA or like others puts Aquila for toughness. And i feel the lack of block chance and respectively the lack of DR too.
The times when BB rocks are gone. So i don’t want to include it into math anymore.
At this point, I’d prefer them to do ‘Gain double your block chance as damage reduction at a maximum of 75%’… this would significantly lower the amount of block chance required on gear and skills.
I hate stacking mechanisms, even if it’s only 3 stacks.
I should explain something here, about stacking. It is very important thing to understand! And i hope the devs knows that.
!!! In high RGs the stacking mechanic is working against players in case accumulating toughness. You can simply be one-shotted if you lose your stacks, especially when fight against RG.
Because of that we should look on stacking mechanism only when it gives us power! And you can propose here your variants of the new rings with interesting mechanics and etc.
Also get in mind that Crus hasn’t any stream-skills, so stacking here might be though attaks or blocks.
If we will get an item wich can increase our power (not DPS) when we block the attack it will be great for builds wich depends from % of Block Chance. Unfortunatedly the Blood Brother is not that goood as it seems. If BB had a stack mechanism with even 3 stacks for 5 secs each - it will be a good source of damage, outperformed even Furnance. …But next attack will add 30% more damage - pffff, what is this? I made a few types of attacks per second: 1st through Punish, 2nd - Bombs. So almost all increased damage added to Punish because of it’s super speed crazy attack rate. My Bobms are not receive any increased damage.
As you see some stacking mechanick might be good if it will released properly.
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You do realise that there’s a difference between block chance and block amount, right? It’s why the two values are separated in the details tab of your hero’s character sheet. Let’s say you have 100% block chance, that clearly means you’ll successfully block every attack made against you. However, if the block amount is 100,000 and a mob would have hit you for 1,000,000 now it hits you for 900,000, i.e. that’d be 10% mitigation, not 100%.
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100% damage reduction means you take no damage from anything. 100% of your block chance, uncapped, means Crusaders can hit 100% block chance and gain 100% damage reduction, ie complete immunity to all damage at all times. From a single item. Armor, resists, etc. None of those matter at that point, because you’re already completely immune to all damage anyway. Nothing can hurt you. It’s the equivalent of having a shield pylon active all the time.
And block value? Nobody was talking about block value.
Yes.
No.
They still matter, because you’re not immune to all damage, even with 100% block chance.
Yes it can. If a mob was going to hit you for X damage, and your block value is Y, it means it hits you for (X - Y) damage. Unless Y > X, which it won’t be, this means you’ll still take damage.
Nope. Not even close.
Which is precisely why you’re mistakenly thinking that 100% block chance equals 100% damage immunity. It doesn’t. 100% block chance means you’ll block every single attack that is thrown at you, and your block value is deducted from the damage the attack would otherwise have hit your for.
100% block chance isn’t 100% damage immunity. Not even close.
I imported my Invoker into d3planner. Take note of the highlighted section…
https://i.imgur.com/TGdCqce.jpg
It clearly shows 100% block chance (would actually add up to 114%) but also…
Blocked attacks have their damage reduced by 25,000 to 32,800
So, all attacks will be blocked but if the incoming damage was X, the blocked attack will do X-25,000 to X-32,800 damage.
I think you miss the context of LostSoul. The topic is about having JL giving us DR equivalent to our block chance. So 100% block chance means 100% DR which in this context means God mode.
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Justice Lantern grants damage reduction equal to your block chance up to 75% was the best suggestion I’ve read.
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It’s better than JL we have now, yes. But up to 75%, all based on block chance, doesn’t give enough for the amount of investment crusaders have to make for it to be worthwhile. 75% requires a passive, the ring, and a perfectly rolled shield block chance and primary affixes so you can get the block% enchant on that shield. Without going all in on block%, a typical crusader is only going to be sporting 35-40% block chance (10-20% from shield, 16% from JL). You might as well not bother equipping the ring with as little as it offers then.
A base amount of DR that scales up with your block chance is always going to be a better choice: it can cover builds that are block-light and block-heavy and everything in between.
Other classes get their extra DR effects passively by doing what they were already going to be doing anyway. Saders shouldn’t be the only ones expected to completely change how they gear and spec to make use of the one DR item available to them.
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With perfect rolls on JL ring and shield, you’d be at 47% DR. I can see how this would be not impactful if you rolled 12% and 23%.
If they raise Justice Lantern’s block chance roll to 24% block chance roll, Any class using a shield gets 55-59% DR without Hold Your Ground.
Hold your Ground passive brings you to a 75% cap and makes up for crappy shield rolls, possibly saving you from having to roll block%.
The trouble is this item change doesn’t really address the builds that need DR most. (SoL6 Hammers and AoV6 Fist of the Heavens)
I recommend starting there. So perhaps they should make the ring do something extra for builds that cast spenders.
Aside from a zdps monk, I can’t think of any class that would use a shield over their class-specific off-hands, so that’s sort of a moot point. Those off-hands are too powerful to skip. They’re not really ‘optional.’ And so long as JL has its legendary power contingent on having a shield equipped (which it should), it becomes effectively a ‘Crusader-only’ ring, since crusaders are the only class that use shields.
As for the two sets you mentioned, well, if the ‘base’ DR amount of this ring, with normal build and spec priorities, is in the area of 50%, then it is the same choice other classes have to make when it comes to their secondary DR items: offensive or defensive. Granted, it’d still be a whole lot weaker than BoM.