I popped in a GR125 and won easily, upper 130 gems at the time. I literally had 2700-2800 physical resist, i didn’t vault much, instead I just stood there and melee’d. No conduit magic either.
This was with Aughild. I was break even progress on decent sized trash piles, with gains on good elites. I think a Crimson setup w/ higher CDR+AD could actually progress on trash piles. I do have a dagger with 10% Damage, 7%AS, 10% CDR, quad gloves, the right shoulders… etc.
I had the same thought.
But I’m not sure if it should be a rune or an item that gives caltrops that ability. There’s a bit of speculation I made about the new set and it would necessitate, if the set is something to do Spike Traps to give caltrops the pull mechanic because it also slows. So a creature would trigger caltrops and it would pull other mobs to it, slowing them and so the group would stay together longer since they’re all slowed, dropping more caltrops would make the grouped up pack larger and larger while you were able to vault in out to drop the caltrops while also able to blast them from a distance.
This is all in theory, it would definitely have to be tested to make sure it works like it does in my head.
Yeah either way but some kinda of mechanic as you and I have described…is likely going to be needed in order to play the ranger style of DH in high GRs, not only for suvivability, but also for grouping and being able to effectively benefit from AD.
Side note: I know they won’t intentionally design zdps but if DH had this pull mechanic, the zDH might make a return to group farming.
Hey Shark,
I had this in a suggestion list above:
It’s the same as Ess of Johan, except the enemies don’t land on top of your head. but rather like 15 yards back.
Yeah that’s a decent idea as well. I would just like to have more control over what and where the pull takes place. Spike traps made the most sense to me since you can cast at range. Caltraps can work as well but may take some skill to pull off effectively, which may not be a bad thing. Sentry can be cast at range as well. So that works too.
I think the dh community should really push for some type of mechanic that involves pulling for grouping and likely the secondary effect of stun, chill, or immobilized. Would really help promote the ranged playstyle.
New to forums, been lurking. DH player here (PS4). To give DHs a chance, Blizzard really needs to seriously reduce the cooldown time on vengeance like someone else said in the thread - this will allow us to open up the weapon slot in the cube. We also need far more toughness - we are as weak as a wet paper bag at the moment, even impale s6 (unless you have a tonne of paragon/main stat, which helps mitigate things.
My personal impression mirrors several others in this thread - Blizzard sadly, doesn’t care about DHs.
I don’t really care too much about a new DH set class - I tried both the new Barb and Cru and heavily disliked the mechanics of both. I have a strong suspicion that any new DH set class will suffer from the same issues.
Whilst I predominantly play on PS4, I have a very good idea on how the class works, in particularly UE MS and impale s6 (never did like n6/m6/n6m4 etc).
A few ideas that I’ve had (haven’t theory tested them number wise, I ain’t great with the number mechanics of the game):
shadow impale - change HPS to have an additional orange text along the lines of "if in group, add 2 extra daggers vs elites). Base dmg on either karleis/hps or shadow set needs to be buffed by around 10 GR levels. Toughness needs to be heavily increased. Blizzard should remember that not every player who pushes plays in groups and has heavy paragon…and solo players shouldn’t be punished because of this.
UE MS - multishot automatically slows or stuns without having to use trapped or the thrill of the hunt passive. This frees up a passive for perhaps some extra DPS. Again, buffs need to be made to weapon/quiver/set, how much, I have no idea.
The archery passive needs to be re-worked - currently it just buffs if you are using a bow or quiver. What if you’re using impale or traps? It is then a worthless passive, and there is no alternative passive that buffs for melee weapons/traps that you can choose instead of it.
Far more items need to either have their legendary powers completely revamped and buffed, or completely altered to something new and useful. At a guess, I’d say that 95% of DH legendary items are utterly worthless and auto trash - I’d dare to say that this percentage is far higher than any other character class in the game, but may be wrong, it’s just a hunch.
I like the idea of spike trap/caltrops etc, but both skills are worthless at the moment.
Finally, group play is a must. DHs have had basically zero group inclusion since s6 i believe (yeah, there was a tiny brief period in s10 with impale for RGK, but that was very short lived). We need current skills/builds/sets buffed in ways that make us worthwhile having in a group.
D3 is based on numbers - it can’t be that hard to balance everything out, both within each character class, and character vs character.
I also agree that some logical changes need to be made to items, for example:
Yangs/DML, UE set always roll with discipline. No other class has to content with this mechanic. Quivers such as DML and HPS should have the chance for ms/impale skill dmg to roll much higher than other skill types. In regards to general items, rings and amulets must be guaranteed a socket (non primal), since the game is pretty damn limited without using legendary gems these days. Compass rose in particularly needs a re-working to remove the default movement speed primary stat - I’ve had so many potentially good compass rose rings ruined by having no socket and this movement speed, and with only roll being allowed to be changed by the mystic…
DH is very popular because the game play mechanics are the best in the game imho, and it is just a fun character class to play. Nearly all of the other character classes are not fun to play. This is my personal interpretation - yes, I have played every class, and tried nearly every build in the game for every character class. In terms of mechanics, PoE is far more fun to play.
Why bother posting?
I lost all faith in Blizzard Entertainment nearly a decade ago once it became clear that Activision was now in control and slowly destroying it from within.
Now, I just play old games out of nostalgia. I don’t put any more money into any of their titles anymore and I have no plans to do so in the future.
Hell, only reason I am on now is lurk and see what people think about the upcoming changes in general.
I guess I decided to post because I do enjoy D3, and I’ve gotten my value for money out of it in terms of hours played. I love the DH class, it’s clearly and easily my favourite class and I honestly want to see it excel. Staying silent won’t help fix the issues with the DH class. We need to be strong, band together and be very, very vocal constantly so that Blizzard sits up and takes notice. This is the tactic that the Barbs did very successfully, although the sad part is, that even given that, it took several years for Blizzard to pull the finger out and help get the Barb class where it should be.
If we stay silent, then we might as well just give up and stop playing the game. I’ve played the Diablo franchise since the late 90s and it has a soft spot in my heart, even given Blizzard’s naughtiness in the past few years.
So all your items with no All resistance had Physical resist as secondary?
helm, amulet, rings, gloves, bracers.
Whole point of what I wrote was that we could go with so much more damage buffs if we did not need to care so much about survival.
125 is not a big deal for me. But for 127 you need 37% more damage.
Edit: I checked your char. You are probably running with cold. It is easier to do it with cold than fire for sure. I did not want to augment cold items because any build not capable of 130 is waste of time and resorces.
Just compare damage reduction you have with Sadow set and damage reduction you have with your Crusader. Is that close to each other?
You did 140 on Crusader if I remember. Did you take more damage on Crusader in 140 or on Demon Hunter in 125? Did you care so much about secondary stats on Crusader? Did you go full defense with esoteric on Crusader?
Well, I did a GR122 (impale s6) in s18 with p1200 (PS4, so remember there are major issues with the way the game works on consoles). I could have probably done a 123 DPS wise, even with such low paragon, but toughness and survivability was a major issue - even with good mobs. This was with augments @ 110 and lgems in the low 120s. Without the seasonal buff, I’d have only done a GR120 I reckon.
NS, have done a 123 with p2200 and lgems/augments no higher than my s18 character. Toughness was again a major issue. Note, both builds were stock lightning based impale s6, no aughilds variant. I think aughilds would give me 1 GR at least, perhaps 2 with some fishing.
I typically run with AR on pants, shoulders, boots, chest. LPK on chest, pants, and if possible, bracers and karleis. It’s practically impossible to get a compass rose or CoE with the right stats and LPK as a secondary imho. I usually have damage reduction (ranged) on chest along with the LPK. I try and stack physical as a secondary on the gloves and helm, but again, it’s hard to get that secondary stat perfect. Even with all of that, above GR120, impale is fragile at the lower paragons that i usually get in seasons (typically p1200-1300). The build shouldn’t need high paragon to have toughness imho - it should be inherent as part of the build, before paragon is taking into account.
Toughness definitely needs to be buffed for impale s6. Toughness for the other DH builds really needs buffing, as they are all far weaker imho, than impale, and by a considerable amount. Note: you can’t stutter step on consoles, and there is no auto skill hack via num lock like there is with the PC version of the game. Since I am only human, sometimes, I miss reactivating vengeance by a second and that can be costly at the higher GRs!
A GR125 is beyond my ability in seasons (low gems/augments/paragon as a solo player). My hats off to players who can do it!
I guess this is going to be unpopular as apparently it goes against the original ethos of the class being a ranged sniper, but I actually enjoy Shadow/Impale the most because it’s a melee range build. I see my DH as an assassin type that is so slinky / lithe that she’s leaping around, dodging, ducking, diving and not a single mob is fast enough to land a hit on her. For me, turning Impale into a ranged hero destroys that image I have of her. Essentially, if she just turned into another ranged variant, it’s essentially throw knives, loose arrows or loose bolts from far away. I’d love to see a set where you can use bows / crossbows at range, then swap to dual-daggers at close range.
My Crusader tanks much better than my DH.
Yesterday, I played the Impale build again, came close to 126 with 5 keys, I had 2500 phys resists, 27k dex. (No festering/battlefields) Most tries, I’m break even progress, when I get double elites it pushes the progress.
I tried swapping to Wolf and MfD but died, I probably can just take MfD and realistically survive, or use Physical rolls on boots, pants and belt.
I could trade CoE for Elusive and the survival ceiling would be much better, but the power gap will drop by 2-3GRs, or I could gain a few thousand paragon.
The thing about the Crusader I play is that there are many offense trades that can boost damage, debilitate rune, law rune, jewelry configuration and legendary gem, CDR trades, etc, many in reach with more paragon.
DH needs more defense all around, Elusive Ring to 80% wouldn’t do much for this variant, but raising Shadow Power’s DR to 60% DR would make sense for this melee focused set.
I agree with most that have stated that the issue with DH is that there are limited synergies between our own skills and the legendary powers that are available to us - more so on the defensive part.
I for one do not push GRs simply because I’ve always played DH the way I played any character in Hardcore - preferably not dead in a GR.
So as such, I realised how squishy DH can be when I push above a certain GR limit that was clearly achievable if I attack, die, resurrect and rinse repeat, which brings us the question if bumping up damage numbers/multipliers is the way to go.
So far, our passives and complimenting legendary have given us enough offensiveness, but Blizzard has been neglecting our defensive measures to which not every set gets a proper damage reduction buff or even at all.
Aside from that, our passive in itself barely feel useful to the point that almost every build uses the same 2 to 3 passives.
For example, Brooding. How often do we actually make full use of that passive when we’re constantly on the move? And on the occasion we’re not actually moving, chances are we won’t be fully utilising its effect as that would mean we are not ‘surrounded’ by mobs.
So herein lies the question: is it because our class is not getting proper sets and legendaries, or is our skill in totality (not just passives) are just underperforming due to the current game’s design?
That’s not comparing like-for-like…
Akarat’s Champion vs Vengeance / Dark Heart
I get what you’re saying about ultimate forms, but we can’t do like-to-like on all buffs, or you might get it in some other measurement:
Both Buff Armor: 150% vs 40%
Vengeance:Dark Heart is like Unstoppable Force in that it offers 50% DR when used with CC3, so those actually match.
Either way, you can spot where things fall apart for DH.
My Crusader can run GR130s, non-stop, without dying once, I use one defensive gem for safety: Esoteric.
DH ranged builds can by pass the inclusion of Esoteric. DH close ranged builds like Impale, Rapid Fire, Cluster Bombs need either Esoteric, Elusive, Unity or high paragon for safe comfortable play.
It is my belief that if you are able to solo in full offense mode (gear, gems, passives, skills) configured for maximum damage, your build will be lackluster in groups because there are no offensive trades that can be compensated with IP/Sanc/Healing, etc. We see this with Multishot and N6M4.
This statement contradicts my last post requesting more DR on Shadow Power.
Really, we should be requesting heavier offense, so we can solo 130s with Boar, Bladed Armor and Elusive Ring, then swap those out in groups.
This would mirror what’s happening in N6 Rapid Fire, very hard to survive and use CoE without 6000+ paragon, but a lower paragon player could use CoE setup in groups. (it’s too bad RF sucks in groups)
Not when it’s just arbitrarily increasing multipliers on set. Our skills in itself requires a re-look and a revision, but I highly doubt that at this point in the game’s age that they’d consider looking into making any drastic changes for the DH.
I, too digress.
While I can understand enjoying the style, and for me it’s a build that’s finally not mega squish, I personally can never view it as a melee build simply because you’re literally throwing knives and that’s pretty much it. Truly pulling off some simulation of the assassin or ninja aesthetic would require a legitimate short-ranged melee attack that would be primarily used for damage and not a secondary for defensive purposes like FoK. And aside from the aforementioned FoK and the perpetually overlooked Chakram - Shuriken Cloud, our kit is pretty much tied to projectiles. From a simple creative standpoint, I wouldn’t be against the Shadow set specifically improving these in some way, but it’s also something that’ll require additional tweaks to other existing items or even new ones. I’d also just suggest universally changing FoK to a skill that costs 10 hatred. The risk associated with its use has never justified the cooldown on most of its iterations.
Agreed, we need better stuff like:
Our damage curves are blah.
Absolutely.
I realised DH doesn’t have a stacking temporary buff-type legendary aside from RF, which explains why it’s the best build for GR pushes now (but also mostly due to the tiny changes for our class that was 2 patches ago, I think).
On the side note, our skills hardly interact with each other, thus my aforementioned the lack of synergy with our skills leaves them performing in silos.