But that’s the point, you never even see the end game, never even experience the true meaning of the game. SO NO, you will not tell us what this game will look like!
DS, Bloodborne and Sekiro aren’t MMOs. People left WoW for many reasons, not solely because it got more casual.
HARDCORE = at least 8 hours a day / being on leader board / pushing your limits
CASUAL = i can’t play today cof my wife / only 2 hours is enough / i don’ know, need to check google
2 opinions;
-it is very hard to derive new opinions on them that are defendable.
You can be a knowledgeable consumer without no-lifing it. And no, it’s not a fact that those people are more important. Not to the community, and certainly not to the company. There are a few dedicated players that are cherished for what they offer, but that isn’t most hardcore players.
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This is just to funny. I wont argue with likes of you. If it’s up to you, Diablo 4 will look like Super Mario Bros!
Okay, here’s the thing, I don’t agree with those definitions and this is a big part of the conversation is actually agreeing on definitions and going from there.
But there’s no point in doing that on a forum were people are too interested in sharing their own opinion rather than having a conversation.
Doesn’t matter. Your posts claimed that the hardcore crowd is small and tiny, I refuted that claim that hardcore games have sold more units than the current WoW subscriber number.
Yeah, that doesn’t refute what I said, most people have left for classes be boring, boring tends to mean a brain dead monkey can do it. Gear has no value because again, they give it to you like candy to the point they need to make gear complicated. The game itself is ultra casual due to the design choices.
I mean honestly, you can tell someone’s who is a casual because they think titanforging is a good thing because they don’t understand the depth of power scaling and the problems it creates in heroic and mythic raids.
I don’t mean to gatekeep or act elitism but if someone who doesn’t even pvp or raid in a some what decent fashion should realize their opinion matters much less. It doesn’t negate your opinions, but if you don’t play the game besides LFR and world quests. You fundamentally don’t have the knowledge or experience who puts in more time than you.
a lore endgame;
-and then endless fun mobblasting.
-fun for years, D3 is great, why wouldn’t D4…
You’re comparing two differing genres, with two completely different fan bases.
Most people leave because really any game gets stale after so long. Others leave because, I dunno, life circumstances change, or their interest shifts to other hobbies. There are a host of reasons that people leave, many of which have zero to do with the ease or difficulty of a game.
Those people who aren’t mythic raiders may not have the knowledge or experience to comment on those particular activities, but they can offer insight into what makes the overall game enjoyable.
is that an opinion, catered for the aRPG DIABLO3-4 ?!
-in that case, i strongly disagree.
Again, doesn’t matter and you’re just moving the goal post from your original statement.
Which why I said what I said. Just because someone may not play in the super high tiers of content doesn’t mean their opinion is automatically invalid. There’s plenty of people who have good insights despite their skill level hence I try to look individual arguments.
Again, CITATION NEEDED. Because from my point of view and experience, I am saying a large part is that the game doesn’t feel rewarding enough because rewards are cheapen.
And since NONE of us have any hard evidence to back up our opinions. They’ll stay opinions.
Yes, it does matter, and no, I am not moving the goalpost. You’re comparing two vastly different types of games, designed to appeal to vastly different types of player. If you wanted to make a point, you’d of cited a MMO that catered to hardcore play, that was flourishing. Wildstar tried that, and it flopped, sadly.
Why do I need to cite anything, when you don’t? I’ve played WoW since Vanilla. I’ve seen many come and go, and the vast majority of the reasons given had nothing to do with it being too easy or casual. People have myriad reasons for leaving, the few that bother to post on the forums about it being too easy or casual do not represent a significant portion of the population.
This is your original statement. It had nothing to do with the genre or the games. You said it’s a minority crowd and I proved with sales numbers of hardcore games that this is false.
Then you replied, “THOSE DON’T COUNT, THEY’RE NOT MMORPGS.”
This is literally moving the goal post.
I’m the not the one acting as if my opinions are factual statements.
This is true but some reasons are bigger than others. Not every reason is equal to another in size.
They were talking about WoW. So no, I wasn’t moving the goalposts. With regards to WoW, yes, hardcore players are a small, vocal minority.
Stating that people leave for more reasons than a game being too easy is a factual statement.
To you, perhaps. To game developers, perhaps not. You’re not the one determining which reasons have more weight than others.
Doesn’t matter, your posts and your statement of your own words didn’t mention WoW.
No, I said this is my opinion, here’s why I think my opinion is correct and left it at that.
Neither are you, my friend, neither you are. Which you are here.
Also
Wildstar wasn’t a “hardcore” game and is a poor example of one. It was needlessly complicated and tedious. So try to pick a better example.
But don’t act like there isn’t a link between WoW being more casual than ever and with it’s failing while Classic WoW is kicking retail WoW’s rear end in numbers.
It didn’t mention WoW, because I didn’t think I had to spell it out with crayons. Apparently I do.
I disagreed, and said why.
That isn’t giving weight to reasons. It’s listing reasons.
Wildstar had a lot of the same elements that Vanilla WoW did. These elements that supposedly made the game more hardcore. Carbine Studios clearly stated they were aiming for a more hardcore experience. That didn’t work in the end. Which, seeing as I followed the development, eagerly awaited the release, bought it as soon as it came out, and played the hell out of it, is very sad to me. I liked the game. But catering to what ended up being a very small minority wasn’t the way to go.
Classic WoW is powered off nostalgia, plain and simple. And it’s competing with a poorly received expansion. It wouldn’t have these numbers against Legion (that’s assuming you can even give numbers to show that it’s ‘kicking retail WoW’s rear end’ in numbers). Also, it’s numbers are dwindling.
Classic WoW isn’t ‘hardcore’, it’s tedious. But hey, if you like auto-attacking a same level mob for a minute so you can get that 2% drop rate quest item, have at it. I pop in every now and then to take a trip down memory lane, but that’s about all the appeal Classic has for me.
Alright, I’m done. You can’t claim Classic WoW is powered off nostalgia when it’s succeeding where retail is failing. If you can’t admit that, then it just proves you only care about your opinion rather than the truth.
Define “hardcore” first.
Just stop already.
Still more numbers and interest than retail.
Never claimed that aren’t tedius elements in WoW classic nor that the gameplay was that exciting. Because it wasn’t those elements that made WoW classic a success. It was the community and friendships and when you design an MMORPG where you don’t need a community and you make design choices that destroys communities and the importance of communities then you destroy the game.
If you don’t like group content then don’t play an MMORPG and if you do play one don’t demand the game to change around your play style in which it has done so in many ways to fit the casual crowd who for whatever can’t find friends to play the game with. As if… they don’t realize maybe it’s themselves that are the problem and not everyone else.
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Hard to obtain isn’t necessarily a good thing. I think the word you want is meaningful. A lot of levels in D3 you just ignore because the later levels give you new runes you aren’t going to use for skills you don’t use either. If some of your daily goals in playing Diablo 4 are “gain another level up”, that means it feels meaningful and it’s going to make you want and enjoy getting those level ups. If they’re too far and few in between then it’ll feel like a grueling task than a game.
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If gold remains a valuable asset to collect it merely needs plenty of uses. If there’s a bunch of stuff you can unlock that you want to unlock, it’ll remain valuable.
One possible new gold sink could be mount upgrades that slowly make it faster. If your horse is 1% faster in one day, 5% faster in a month and 10% faster in a year, you’re going to want money to keep those incremental mouth speed upgrades coming. -
It feels like you’ve determined what the potions are worth and that they’re static in that value. Quality of potions can be just as important. You may not want or need 1000 potions that heal 10 HP but you’re going to find it more valuable to have 10 potions that can heal 1000 HP.
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Again, not true. The frequency of upgrades combined with the pacing of the game should determine how much of what is dropped. Maybe a lot of the stuff that drops is crafting materials in which you need or want a plethora of it to make any meaningful contribution, it could ‘rain from the sky’ but yield nominal results could be just as effective.
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Bosses, for sure. Regular enemies being too difficult just brings us back to D3’s original Inferno mode in which felt like a giant impassible wall. The game’s meta changed around front loading all your defensive skills and running past everything. There are lessons of intent and result that can be learned from Diablo 3 where these sorts of things were promised and requested and failed to perform despite appeasing our requests. If anything, there needs to be a fun balance. For people who want to mow down hoards and feel like a god, there should be a place for that. If there’s someone who wants to dark souls a boss and out play them through fervor and intelligence, there should be a place for that too.
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RNG designed dungeons should complete this task. The general idea is “easy to learn, difficult to master” - Introducing “difficult to learn” wouldn’t likely get good results. I’m curious yet suspect if the world map would be entirely static not withholding various routes one could take to get from points A and B.
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It all depends on the goal which should determine which punishment for failure should apply. If your attempting to do something quickly, time attacks, ect., merely the act of dying is likely punishment enough. If your attempting to gather resources, losing those resources is far more punishing than being thrown back a minute of backtracking. Maybe some areas (key dungeons?) could have a one-death failure feature where you’ll end up wasting your chances through death.
Frankly I would find getting placed at the starting area of the last check point sufficient in most games, maybe with a gold loss sufficient that multiple deaths prove expensive. -
I find that this is what ruined Diablo 2 but feels like a major necessity for Diablo 3. People stopped wanting to play the game (PvE, questing) - especially in Hell difficulty - in D2. In D3, I just want to get to 70 ASAP so I can start playing the game. Which is also the end game and feels like it really didn’t have any room for meaningful progression.
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If you can’t see that Classic wouldn’t be doing as well against a better received expansion, you can’t be helped. And again, all we have is speculation as to who is playing what.
From what I’ve seen complaints about, an overabundance of tedium.
Truth hurts.
Seeing as they haven’t released numbers for retail in while, all you have is speculation in that regard.
Nothing is stopping you from creating the same communities in Retail. The difference is, you aren’t forced into it by design.
By definition, an MMORPG is ‘an online role-playing video game in which a very large number of people participate simultaneously.’ That doesn’t mean ’ group or else’. The hardest, most rewarding content still requires a dedicated group of individuals working in concert to achieve the goal. It sounds like you want that kind of cooperation for every aspect of the game, which is just tedious. I don’t know if you ever played Everquest back in it’s heyday, but sitting at the entrance to a zone spamming chat for camp checks and LFGs for hours was a blast.
You’re so wrong. Diablo players want content that is challenging. Not for the whole game to be challenging. A lot of people don’t care that boosting exists (like at all) and feel that it’s necessary for replayability. Not everyone enjoys making new characters. There needs to be options for all types of gameplay.
Almost all the things you mentioned aren’t present in D2 yet you say “real Diablo players want this”
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