On the maxroll wastes guide, at the bottom is “At super high Paragon levels (8,000+) you can try the Captain Crimson Trimmings set Setup without Band of Might.”. I figured I’d give it a try, but there is no further explanation other than that one sentence.
I guess you cube Lamentation, get rid of mantle of channeling, cube RRoG & wear two pieces Crimson + Zodiac Ring?
I also took relentless passive because losing 25% damage reduction + 80% damage, and only gaining 19% back (from RCR) seemed nuts. It replaced Brawler, which I was told is additive and only equates to ~8% damage.
So I lose:
80% DR (BoM)
25% DR (MoC)
25% damage (MoC)
8% damage (Brawler)
I gain:
63% Damage
19% DR
Relentless Passive
DR felt perfectly fine (except when all the trash had been killed and I was trying to kill 8 elites by themselves it started to feel pretty squish), and not having to stomp while making pulls was amazing, but surprisingly the damage felt worse. It could have just been the exact mobs that I fought because I only tested this on 1 rift so far. But I figured I would post here, and make sure I wasn’t making some dumb mistake before continuing to test it.
I logged out with that build equipped, so you can check it if you feel so inclined, character name is hamburger. https://us.diablo3.blizzard.com/en-us/profile/melon-1553/hero/137105713
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Hey Melon,
So, it’s been pretty conclusively proven that the “core” setup (6 pieces Wastes, wear Lamentation, Mantle in cube, etc) is strongest at all levels of paragon.
The Koreans were the first to approach the 150 mark with Rend, and at first they were using Crimson… but they kind of stalled out at 148. Then they swapped to the core setup, and there have been a bunch of 150s since then… as far as I know, Crimson has never done it.
The big issues are that wearing Zodiac or RoRG costs you some damage rolls that you could have on CoE or BoM, and also that losing Stomp costs a ton of damage in density. I mean, just think how Kosmic worked Stomp into LoD HotA, and it suddenly became a much stronger build.
Also, at higher paragon, the core setup can swap BR:StP to BR:ItF, which gains you a bunch more damage. If you try that with Crimson, you die.
Bottom line, all the evidence points to Crimson being an inferior setup. But, if you are enjoying playing it, then have at it!
Thanks for the response. Will switch back to the standard setup. Glad I posted here before I spent too much time on it. 
Edit: Wow, I tried BR:ItF, I guess 8k is not enough, because I got wrecked. Even still had Relentless still on by accident from the Crimson setup.
There’s a whole stickied guide here that’s more or less current-ish. I’d start there.
Core build + pixel stomp and Rage Flip can’t be beat when you have enough AD and hard-cast Rend.
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I’ll check it out, yeah that’s what I’m using.
To play that properly, you need to pick up some LpH, on weapon + bracer. You can watch Seras’s 148 clear for an example…
I tried with 3k LPFS w/ bloodthirst instead, was not working that well. I don’t think I have items I can put LpH on unfortunately. I’ll have to keep an eye out for some.
Yeah, LPFS is not very efficient with Rend. You should already have 5k+ from Mortick’s…
Captains is great for speeds & mid level pushing. Single target damage is much higher. I like to save swords that are 10/10 cooldown & resource cost for Captains.
Oh, good call on Morticks Brace, it doesn’t show up in the sheet numbers. That means I had 8k LPFS, seems like a lot of healing. I don’t know how often rend and WW cost fury, but if it’s once per second, that’s 240k per second. Where as BR:StP would only be let’s say 20k life per crit, and WW ticks 5 times per second, and crits half the time, and manually rending once per second, so 3 crits per second, is only 60k life per second. It would seem LPFS would be much better, but from playing it that’s definitely not the case, I don’t get it.
I’m not going to pursue LPFS, because it just feels so much worse, but because I’m curious, if you happen to know:
How long is rend’s cooldown?
How often does WW cost fury?
Well, Rend applied by Ambo costs no Fury, and has no proc coefficient, so it won’t trigger LpFS, LpH, or BR:StP. Hard-cast Rend will cast roughly at your sheet APS, so ~2x/second, and costs 20 Fury, so at 8k LpFS that’s 8000 * 20 * 2 = about 320k life healed per second. HC Rend will also proc LpH one time, when it is cast. As for how often WW eats Fury, I don’t remember exactly. I think it is actually a fraction of the 10 Fury that the tooltip says the skill costs, but also pays that cost very frequently, multiple times per second.
Br:StP, so you know, is also reduced by proc coefficient, which for WW is 20%. So instead of ~20k life per crit, it is more like ~4k. But, StP can also proc on each target hit. So when you spear and stomp a whole bunch of mobs into a heap, your WW and DDs can sometimes hit hundreds of times each second, leading to a ton of healing. But, against small numbers of targets, the healing of BR:StP is pretty poor.
LpH works differently still: it will proc one time only per skill activation, but is not discounted by proc coefficient. So if you have 50k LpH, you’ll heal 50k for each hit of WW, no matter how many mobs you hit. So, better than StP vs single targets, worse vs density. I can’t recall if both WW and DDs can proc it, but if you do some digging in the Rend thread you may find that I answered that question at some point.
Anyhow, the best overall healing is BR:StP, though LpFS and LpH are both more valuable against small numbers of targets.
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Hey Melon,
I have a particular setup that I created that you might be interested in. It Crimsom/IB with zero AD because I don’t enjoy Hard Casting Rend, nor do I enjoy Flip Rage. I used Hurricane to pull in density and the Oculus ring for the brunt of my damage. It super fun and flow like I believe WW should. Here’s a video, my highest clear was GR 134, enjoy!:
Thanks for all the really useful info Rage.
Hey Dieharder, interesting build, and with no band of might either. Nice clear!
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