Unpopular Opinion: Make Nat not another Spin-to-win!

How long have spin to win Dh META already. SPin to win GoD, spin to win UE, spin to win Impale.

Now we have spin to win Nat…yawn. Its like playing the same build, different favored colors…

I rather self cast traps or using something other than strafe, or less used skill like chakam.


U don’t want to play spin to win? Pick shadows mantle, or Unhollowed ! or any other build !


Sure, but people probably want to play the updated build. It would be more interesting if the playstyle is a bit different.


You don’t want to self cast Spike Traps. You can do that already with LoD/LoN and it’s a terrible clunky playstyle because of cooldown on Spike Traps.

So the option is to have them proc off something so you don’t have to lay them manually and if they do that, with how popular Spin-to-win Shadow was this last season, then why wouldn’t they proc off strafe.

Little tidbit, folks have been asking for a Spike Trap build forever and we finally get one and folks don’t like it because it procs off strafe.

Folks need to make up their mind.


Wanting Spike trap builds & not wanting another Strafe build are not mutually exclusive.

For self cast, they can reduce the cooldown or make it no cooldown.


Which would mean a redesign of the skill. How often do they redesign base skills.

Okay, you don’t like spin-to-win. That’s great. But usually to get something folks like you have to deal with something you don’t. Compromise is a thing.

But I’m out of this thread. It’s basically troll with the whole “unpopular opinion” schtick.

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If you disgree, by all means. Its a discussion thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Why the need for the the personal attack/hostailty though.

Why do folks call me toxic? Maybe I haven’t been measured but I’m not toxic in my responses.

I mean, okay, let me apologize. I’m sorry I bothered you with my response. I’m just little aggravated with folks complaining about something it appears most people like.

I’d personally like GoD to be worked on, but that set illustrated how good Strafe is for builds that have to put attacks out fast so I don’t fault the devs for trying to build it into other sets.

I think the issue is with strafe and not really what builds work off it.

My opinion only.


I am not the only one that are disappointed with the strafe playstalye, & I am not sure that was the intend of the dev.

(goto 1.40 time) Wudijo mentioned many people ( hard to quantified though) not hype about strafe playstyle.


What I’m saying is it’s hard for the devs to go away from something when they got nothing but positive feedback last season for giving DH builds spin-to-win playstyles.

I don’t understand what’s changed between this season and what will be season 28. I mean, it’s like folks went from liking spin-to-win to hating it in the blink of an eye, which is just confusing to me and I imagine it would confuse the devs as well.


As far as not playing spin-to-win, the DH has three other sets that don’t work off spin-to-win. Shadow won’t do it this season, UE won’t do it this season and Marauder has never. So in my opinion, theres plenty of options for folks that don’t like Strafing to kill stuff.

But yeah, I see where folks are coming from, though I wouldn’t much like the set to go back to running of Rain of Vengeance. I’ve personally never liked that skill, but if they changed it to something else, I wouldn’t mind it.


If you want to be technical, the only true “spin to win” is Patterns of Justice Monk. They can numb lock everything and hold right click. Barbarian has to charge/leap/stomp every 8 seconds to keep that 80% defense up from the ring. It’s quite annoying to play for me.

Wudijo helped ruin Gears of Dreadlands by making suggestions on “how cool” it would be to interrupt the strafe effect to cast something.
Well he got his wish and if you want max damage you have to stop strafing every second to cast a generator. Super fun! thanks…

Last season the only reason people were tired of strafe is it was built into every single set by means of sanctification. Well that’s gone this season. Shadows is back to normal. Unhallowed Essence is back to normal. Marauders is back to normal. By all means play those now if you don’t like strafe but complaining about the ONLY set this current season that can just hold strafe without stopping is absurd. I don’t like marauders and I hate the turret system but I’m not about to ask them to change it.


They could eventually make a single set that is specifically dedicated to the fantasy of a Trapper / Engineer build, which includes Spike Traps, Sentries, Cluster Arrows and maybe a few other ‘engineer-y’ skills like Grenades or Rockets…

… and then another dedicated set for Spin to Win.

We could play around with some ideas, e.g. for a dedicated Engineer / Trapper Set that does not include Strafe, e.g.

  • (2 Piece) Everytime you hit an enemy with Cluster Arrows, spawn a Spike Trap if it is on your bar. Every use of Cluster Arrow detonates existing Spike Traps.
  • (4 Piece) Everytime you manually deploy a Spike Trap, gain x% Damage Reduction for 20 Seconds. Stacks up to 60% DR (or more) + Your Sentries now also shoot Cluster Arrow automatically + everytime you do.
  • (6 Piece) Every deployed Sentry increases the Damage of Spike Trap, Cluster Arrow, Sentry, etc by xxxx%.

But regardless of which way they go if they decide to give Spin to Win a dedicated set, it would stop Strafe from entering so many DH sets.

You do understand strafe isn’t build into Nats. You don’t have to strafe at all if you don’t want to. You can proc mines well with multishot, Rapid fire bouncy grenades, hungering arrow lightning arrow with quiver, Impale with quiver ice/lightning runes. Sure strafe may work better but nobody is forcing you to use it and there are plenty of other sets to use without it.

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There are different kinds of players that all play for different reasons and get enjoyment out of different things.

In game design theory, there are broadly three player types:

  • Timmy (fun = big explosions, big numbers, social interaction, etc)
  • Johnny (fun = crazy combos / interactions, fantasy fulfillment, etc)
  • Spike (fun = being competitive and winning)

these terms were coined by one of the developers of MTG. google that if you wanna know more about that concept.

All of these player types are relevant.

If AGAIN Strafe would be the best skill to use, it would become quite annoying / boring / frustrating for Spike-type Players, hence the suggestions for a dedicated Strafe Set or not letting Spike Traps be proced by Strafe.

If the “Spike” type players want to be competitive and win, they wouldn’t be using Nats. Currently marauder will again end up being the strongest DH build to “win”. Nats is only overperforming due to the potions being brokenly OP, the gem in the helm everyone is using to reset potion CD (which won’t be available in season anyway), and the currently bugged S2 still working with all skills until they fix it. At the moment this seems to be in the 140-145 range paragon depending, after previously mentioned issues are fixed.

Aside from all that. I find it remarkable that someone grouped gamers into arbitrary categories that don’t mean a thing for this topic. You can be competitive and win without using this set at all. You can be competitive and win while using this set a stepping stone to a higher performing set.

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How about giveing back RoV on Nat’s and that will proc ST?

I could see something like that working only if they remove the cooldown from ST’s and allow you lay 5 or 10 traps at once.

They won’t remove the cooldown from Spike Traps because they don’t rework base skills ever. I mean, way back when RoS came out they changed Poison Bolas to Freezing Strike but I haven’t seen them do something like that since.

Set-specific Leaderloards

Arbitrary? Yes, to some degree, but that does not mean that it is useless to do so.


In fact it is very important for game designers to understand how to design the items / cards / content / etc they are designing. If things or mechanics that are designed for Timmy Type Players are suddenly appearing on e.g. Spike Items, it can be very frustrating for one player type and vice versa.

There’s no CD on ST. It’s on RoV. Also ST can still be triggered by spenders, so i’m not shure about RoV either.

There is too, it’s like Sentries. You can lay them, but each one you lay starts a cool down. With Sentries you can lay max 3 with Spike Traps you can lay max 5. With Custom engineering of course.