Typhon GR150 trash killer: wizard way back to group play?

Hi wizards!

I think we are all a bit sad that we’re not really welcome in groups this season, because we don’t have a viable support or dps build for groups.

Or do we??

I’ve just been testing a bit so far, but I played typhon hydra as trash clear in a few 150s, and honestly it seems quite strong! With both dps around 3k paragon we did 150s at around 10 minutes (had a 6min clear with a good monster type), and it felt like it was the zbarb and monk being the limiting factors. The pixel pulls from the barb were destroyed in a couple of seconds!

The build
It’s essentially the solo pushing setup (see maxroll for example https://d3.maxroll.gg/guides/typhon-hydra-wizard-guide) but with pain enhancer instead of stricken, and stack area damage everywhere you can (except ammy). I play illusionist over elemental exposure to keep up, and to dodge incoming dots asap. Don’t worry about attack speed breakpoints with pain enhancer, AD more important. Ask the zdh to roll bleed on a spare yangs to help with pain enhancer. And that’s it really.

Point is you have ridiculous density scaling: the cone hitbox, area damage, shard of hatred, pain enhancer, and absolute zero.

AD is very important in the build, even stronger than attack speed (and you don’t care about breakpoints with pain enhancer) and elemental damage (due to adding with absolute zero), so go AD over ias on gloves and rings if you have to chose, ideally even on ammy over elemental damage.

I played it with focus and restraint (karini in cube) instead of rorg (drop tasker and theo) and coe, mainly because it’s so hard to roll trifecta rorg or karini (and I had good trifecta FnRs from my monk), and because I could be more flexible with turning on damage when the pull was ready rather than waiting for coe cycles. Note average damage is the same over 16 seconds, but you get more from a coe setup if you play around the burst. But honestly the damage is quite enough even without the burst from coe. I’m sure you can play it with coe and rorg, probably stronger in theory, but less quality of life for sure, both in gearing and playstyle.

This is my build (but I obviously dont have that good rolls): https://d3.maxroll.gg/d3planner/611224677

Playstyle
First, you have a lot of cc, which will make life harder for the zbarb. Try your hardest to minimise impact by not placing hydras (or black holes) close to enemies before you’re turning on dps. So start the floor with refreshing storm armour and placing two hydras at entrance. Try to keep up best you can (you can deliberately take a small hit to refresh teleport) and stop to swipe a few times with your blades every now and then to protect your shields.

Once the barb has picked a spot and the pull is starting to form (about first stomp is usually good, try to communicate on timing), it’s your turn.

  1. Swipe blades to ensure 5 dynamo stacks.
  2. Carefully place first hydra. You want a place that will hit most of the monsters in the densest part of the pull. You DO NOT want a single mob just behind the hydras making the hydras shoot away from the pull. Corners are great, walls can be ok, otherwise a bit out from the pull in the most empty direction. They have decent range.
  3. Cast your black hole in the middle of the pull. Yeah it sucks to ruin the pixel, but they mostly stay within AD range of each other, and you can get 50+ stacks, giving you +150% cold damage, which is a 2x damage multiplier. Also blizzard.
  4. Quickly swipe blades 5 more times (pain enhancer should make this very quick) and place a second hydra. Same spot as first if you’re happy with the spot, otherwise might be good to use a different spot so that a single mob won’t remove ALL your damage. Honestly, even one set of hydras destroys a good pixel pull.
  5. Teleport to an occy ring while staying as close as possible to the pull (audacity and shard of hatred) and keep swiping for shields while the pixel evaporates. Blanket in blizzards. Keep doing small movements to dodge projectiles or dots on the ground. Don’t overextend and lose your shields, better to evacuate the occy if needed.
  6. When most trash is dead, and barb starts being impatient, move your hydras to somewhere out of the way so that mobs can recover from cc-immunity and zbarb can pull leftover elites/champions to next stop. Again, talk to zbarb and ask them to ping or type “m” when they want to move. Or better, discord.
  7. On RG, you won’t deal any damage (although I haven’t played saxtrix or hamelin yet…), so just don’t cause trouble. Which means keep hydras out of the way (but do refresh, they run out after 30 seconds), and stay decently close to the RG to not proc teleports or jumps. Not too close though, keep an eye on your karini timer on buff bar. You don’t want to lose your gem up!

I wish I had a video to share, will take a capture next time I play it and update!

How strong is it?
I’ve only run this maybe 5-10 GR150s so far, and with ~3k paragon dps we typically clear around or just below 10 minutes. Fastest was 6 minutes, slowest was like 13min I think? These were with people I don’t know, just from asking in community, so it’s really hard to gauge. So honestly, not sure how strong it, which is part of why I’m making this thread. I want others to try it and share experience! It’s definitely viable, but I assume not as strong as sader or marauder? It melts mobs down from 50+ to 10-5 mobs in a few seconds, but you wont do much on the leftover elites unless the zbarb can stomp trash onto it for AD. In general, the strength depends a lot on how tight and how big pulls the zbarb can do, probably even more than sader or marauder.

Do bear in mind that when you switch dps on, you often get AD lag slideshow a few seconds when playing on an americas server, until most of the trash is gone. Australian servers seem to handle AD much better though.

EDIT:
Ok, I got two games in yesterday, and recorded! 6:30 and 9:50 in pretty average rifts, with a 6k paragon monk RGK!

Second rift had hamelin, and while the AD did a couple % of damage on the RG at best, it does allow the fire allies to target the RG, as well as spawn an oculus ring. So I think on RGs with spawns, do have your hydras there to kill them.

I haven’t played marauders or sader, so would be quite interested in someone more experience to have a look at these runs and compare to how one of the meta TKs would have performed in these rifts.

One thing I realised is that mobility really is a big problem. Losing a lot of time on me running behind while the zbarb already has the pull up and waiting. Any ideas for how to add more mobility? Wormhole? Maybe try to fit in some CDR rolls somewhere for teleport? I’m running witching hour, would krelms be an option? That belt that gives CDR? All gear and skill slots are pretty contested apart from the belt (and maybe bracers?), so not sure what else can be done… :confused:

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No, it’s not actually!

It’s true that non-pet skill damage is additive with other additive buffs/debuffs. But it’s different for hydra damage. With hydras (and many other pets), skill damage is a separate multiplier. You should definitely take hydra damage!

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Right! Have you told me that before? Maybe you have. Either way, i fixed it in OP.

So even non-ancient shoulders with hydra and AD is preferable then. For off-hand though… not going to find a trifecta crit-hydra-AD winter flurry with decent orange roll, ideally ancient… I guess the 20% AD (on top of your ~150% you already have) is similar or slightly better than the 15% hydra (on top of 130%). Safe to assume essentially all your damage is area damage when you TK.

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I can’t even find an int/crit/hydra with a good affix roll :frowning:

But yeah I think I’d agree, should go for AD + hydra shoulders, hydra on chest, then probably AD on off-hand unless you roll a god-tier one where you can have both.

I think I have an ancient int-crit-AD winter flurry with 140% orange roll that I used for TK. Not amazing, but I guess as good as you can expect. I did gamble sources from my monk a lot to be fair, so I’ve kindof earned it a little. The gambling also netted me a godly ancient trifecta ooid, which is part of the reason that I use that weird build solo. Have a look at my profile, or leaderboard. :exploding_head: Best drop for me this season by some margin, don’t expect to ever find an ooid like that again.

Just wanted to drop in only to say thank you. It’s a great approach. Nice guide. Overall well done. <3 A bit sad but this season hasn’t hooked me like last season. This guide gave me a little itch to complete the journey, but I only play solo. :confused: And I spammed to much tft to reach master. I hope the next season is going to be bigger for Wizards. In terms of changes. And if not I hope you can provide another excellent guide for wiz players.

happy to hear that someone likes it! I’m trying to inject some positivity and actual gameplay into the forums that are otherwise very heavy on whingeing and theory-crafting. So good to hear that someone actually appreciates it, thanks for that!

And honestly, if all you want to do is the season journey, then class or season balance doesn’t matter at all. Season journey only requires you to play up to T12 or something right? Maybe a GR70 or 75? Any class, essentially any set from any class, can do that easily. Even the weakest wizard sets have clears well into 130s, which is more than 5000x the hitpoints of a GR75. There’s been high 140s and 150 solo clears on wizard, not all from astronomically high paragon players, and we see here that the class is perfectly capable of being trash clear in 150s well below 10min even at 3k paragon. Unless you’re planning to push deep into 140s solo, or want to min-max for 5k+ paragon points or want to speed run group 150s in sub 5 minutes, then wizard is perfectly fine.

So if you want to do season journey on wizard but don’t because you think the class is weak this season… I’m sorry for being brutally honest here, but you’re just making excuses.

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Yep.

You can do it in under 10 hours on solo wizard this season. Firebird’s is actually a really good starting set because you can get going with literally no supporting items. It has good toughness, good damage, and good mobility without needing any specific supporting items. You can just finish the gifts and then immediately start speedfarming.

I did Guardian in 9.5 hours on EU fully solo (I have the unearned ‘Join a Cooperative Game’ achievement to prove it!).

Unearned cooperative game achievement: https://i.imgur.com/LQcU9FG.jpeg
Guardian: https://i.imgur.com/Tyqvyex.jpeg
9.5 hrs playtime: https://i.imgur.com/ilqGkuT.jpeg

Going back on topic, I managed to record a couple runs the other day (6:30 and 9:50 clears)!
Look at the trash melt to the power of cute little frost hydras!! :smiley:

Maps were pretty average, but apocalypse is a great zbarb and we had a strong monk, which helps.

Also, I edited the OP at the end. I really need more mobility. Any suggestions? Tinne?

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Wormhole + Scramble is probably the way to go. Looks like you already were running Scramble though right?

You didn’t seem that squishy and you weren’t constantly teleporting to keep Safe Passage up, so I imagine you could live without it and run Wormhole.

I don’t think Krelm’s etc. has any value, dps from Witching Hour wins. The crit damage is particularly valuable with the crit chance buffs from a zdh.

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Thanks. Yeah witching hour is a 17% sheet damage upgrade to my delsere (more with zdh buffs as you say), but I’d be willing to give that up for significant mobility boost.

You’re right that toughness is fine. I’d be happy to give up blood bracers as well if there were strong alternatives. Lacunis would be a little more damage from ias, but the movement speed roll does nothing, so probably not worth it.

Idk if I could do some shenanigans with APDs and drop karini… but I don’t think there are mobility options in jewelry slot either (that’d be coe at that point), and without karaini I’d be dropping scramble, and not sure what other skill could give me significant mobility. Would probably be magic weapon in that case? It’d be a ridiculous damage boost, but I’m not sure APDs are consistent enough, and I’m running without a cheat death… :man_shrugging:

I guess I just go wormhole and learn to get controlled illusionist procs better. And try to not get plague tunnels crammed full with spiders… :spider_web: :spider: :spider_web:

To answer your question, it doesn’t seem great. It’s tough to tell from just 2 rifts, especially when I’m watching it on my phone at 3am. But a 6k monk with competent barb and sader TK would probably be doing average 4:30-5 minute runs, with anything over 6:30 minutes being pretty bad. Now this doesn’t necessarily fall all upon the wizard, the difference in a good monk and a bad one are pretty huge, regardless of paragon.

I’ve played TK in groups this season as Necro, Marauder, WD, and Sader and this seems about on par with all the TKs aside from Sader. (But again, very hard to tell with such a small sample)

That being said, who cares; if playing wizard TK makes you happy, and your group doesn’t mind slightly slower runs, go for it.

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Tbh in the video it’s probably the almost 6k inna monk that carries the group. Remove him, go as 3 man and see how far you can go. I play main hydra and I love it but it’s nowhere near strong to be played as tk in group. LoD twister does a better job as tk. However, both blackhole and twister with AD tend to lag and freeze the hell out of the game.