That is correct. It’s safe to assume that anyone multiboxing is also botting. Usually, people multibox to level multiple accounts at once and often times to sell them, but in this game, max level characters are a moot point.
That’s not true.
4 accounts botting together is just that 4 bots botting together.
Multiboxing is a totally different beast. You generally have to have a multibox friendly build. Whirlwind is one, but you need to be able to move together and be in the same spot of the map easily.
The issue with multibox is that people are running autoloot or some sort of inventory macro/script (both of which can get you banned).
Eahh… What? Paragon levels might seem like stacking way too high but the difference they make is hardly influential. Developer said it the best, 10k plvl barbarian only 1 GR above of their own gameplay test measures.
Only high plvl achieved so far is diminishing the GR layout randomization as you go towards the class specs limits. Doesn’t matter if each plvl grants 1 stat or 5 stat, there will be dedicated players that make casuals breathe their dust on their wake.
6000plvl difference translates into 30k mainstat and you can not give a direct measure about it increasing damage about a fixated amount without calculating the augments first. If it creates a 120% damage difference, then it only allows one player to push 5 GRs ahead, not more; as monster health doubles at each 4½ GRs.
Why should I care about other peoples paragons when I’m striving for solo records?
Again this doesn’t solve the issue any botting issue.
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The current situation in the competitive mode is ridiculous. Blizzard has had a fairly hypocritical behavior, has not guaranteed that there is fair competition between players and after 7 years there is no remedy. Turbohud was never persecuted and also never going to be banned because at this point it would be counterproductive, there is a lot of naivety on this issue. If a significant percentage of players will leave the game, they would drag all their friends to another game, largely because there has never been an acceptable matchmaking for public games and these are also populated by casual players who do not play efficiently.
Blizzard, just worry about this game being fun, suppressing that halo of ban (fake) on TH will help.
I propose a new game mode: that anyone can play with the items, the paragon and the map of the top1 of each class
For me personally, I’ve never cared that much about THUD (or bots for that matter). They don’t affect my personal enjoyment of the game. However I’m not a leaderboard chaser. You can easily tell i’m not as I’ve played most of the seasons and yet my non-season account is barely over 1k paragon. I play for the fun of it and then play something else during the downtime.
I’ll start with bots:
I can see where the main issue arises for those actually pushing GRs. While any pushing player knows about rat runs and the like that can gain trillions of XP per hour, 2k-3k para isn’t that hard or that long to get. 3k paragon takes a bit over 388 Trillion XP. Even at 2T xp/hr, thats only 194 hours which isn’t that much for an 8hr+ a day hardcore player. and 2T is on the low end of XP gains from rat runs (I don’t know the exact but I’d fathom more closer to 5T/hr with the recent buffs which cuts it to 77 hours.)
However bots do give a major edge in the farming of materials which in itself is a major time sink. So I see where the players are coming from about them and yes, its a major issue. At the same time, some of the players complaining I see would never make top 1000 even if every single bot user was banned and bots didn’t exist.
Remember we did have a peroid of time where bots wern’t around during either S15 or 16 (i forget) and the overall leaderboards where not that much different. So really if your not already within about 20GRs of the top clears, you still wouldn’t be part of the top 1000.
So while It doesn’t affect my fun factor of playing the game I see where its an issue.
As for THUD:
I’ve seen what it provides and what it does. It is comparable to WoW’s addons but at the same time, D3 didn’t have modding in mind like WoW did. It does provide a lot of useful information that otherwise you would have to either self track or have your character sheet open or just “know” what the CD is since blizz’s tooltips don’t update with gear. I think my only issue with it is in regards to the semi-map hack ability it has and thats really the only concern with it. All of the other info doesn’t really provide an advantage, just an easier at-a-glance view.
Now good players DO know how the layout of maps work and where exits are positioned and if your on the right path (even I know several layouts of parcels of maps (like Queen Spider lady is always after a long NE hallway segment)). And the THUD map doesn’t give the ENTIRE map out all the time. But it does cut exploration down by quite a lot and top leaderboard pushing is all about finding your way around the GR’s quickly.
Again I think the only issue that everyone has grief with it is the Map Revealing feature and if it was gone, no one would really care even though it still is technically against the ToS and is bannable and use at your own risk.
Between the two, bots are the main issue as they affect the leaderboards far more then THUD users do. Main reason is that a lot of top players could still get by without THUD no issue since the information is already provided on the screen and the only time change would be slightly slower clear times.
Bot users however gain paragon far more quickly and basically use the main flawed component of D3’s paragon system and provide far more power then intended. Due to the flawed nature of the paragon system providing too much power creep, the bot user will have an easier time clearing higher GRs. Gear only provides so much power so paragon is the other main way of gaining power.
However the game is already very old, I would rather see them have more preventative measures in place for D4 then try to fix everything in D3. Remember that console players already have the issue with hacked gear and infinite paragon due to the offline nature. With the game with the classic’s department, I wouldn’t expect too much in the future. Just find a way to have fun with the game now until D4.
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Stuff like this worked against legit players on Diablo II
I could do multiple hell mephisto runs in 5-10 minutes manually and the game would disconnect me for up to an hour for making too many games in a short time
I had to adjust my route to farm more then just Mephisto to avoid that
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Actually its true as there was a period of time where the memory code was changed in D3. I remember several posts about a lot of programs were broke because of it (including THUD) which took a few weeks before the new code was cracked. I remember seeing some people post that the maker of THUD at first didn’t have a fix for the changes at patch launch.
Sure a fix was found later apparently but it did stop both bots and THUD for a few weeks.
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Yeah, I get what you are saying, but changing the gameplay and design to curb botting isn’t the way to go.
I have played Diablo III for years, never once have I used stuff like this, I don’t see why anyone else needs to use something like this. While yes this stuff isn’t cheat codes, hacked clients with aimbots, nor a bot that plays for you, however, you didn’t start playing the game knowing the information this software gives.
In my opinion, if you can’t play the game as is without the need of special software, then you shouldn’t be playing at all, because for me personally, that just tells me you lack the skill and or the patience to play the game in its natural manner. Plain and simple, again this may not be a hacked client, or cheat codes, etc. however it’s still something that isn’t natural to the game, and while modifications, extensions, etc. are a really cool asset to have for games, this game is ONLINE, let’s not forget that.
Take this from a guy who develops cheat codes for older game consoles (the Nintendo DS especially), I understand the whole concept of enhancing the experience, but there is always a deeper, darker, and sometimes abusive side to these situations than the mere meaning of enhancements. There is pros and cons to the situation, just because it enhances YOUR experience doesn’t mean it doesn’t harm other peoples experiences online. I am not a competitive guy in Diablo III, I personally find leaderboards in a game like this to be really irrelevant and sort of dumb, however I know others like the feature and want to accomplish said matter. It’s one thing if it’s offline, but in my opinion, getting an edge online is sort of a scummy thing to do when you know not everyone uses stuff like this, it really dampers on the legitimacy when you know more than you are supposed to know versus the rest.
Conclusion:
I know both sides of the field, I have multiple t-shirts to prove it. Keep that stuff away from online gaming, and seriously respect the limitations at hand of said title and just deal with the fact you don’t know everything, risking yourself getting banned potentially (not saying you will, but I am not saying you won’t either) for a virtual leaderboard position (which dictates absolutely nothing for yourself in reality) really seems illogical and overall dumb (I am the blunt type of person, however I really don’t want to get banned from the forums, so I have to keep my words toned down, you should be able to get the point though with the use of my words). But hey people will do as they please, just don’t get upset and angry if something does happen, you did it to yourself, you literally opened the door and asked for it (again not guaranteed, just saying).
Side Note:
Not trying to sound rude either, so please refrain from jumping the gun and climbing my tree, thank you. As for mentioning a system like the Nintendo DS, it’s because back in the day the online scene for the Nintendo DS faced a lot of issues because of cheaters/hackers abusing cheat codes, trainers, and hacked ROMs.
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I generally agree with you.
The nature of this game is grindfest. People should know that is what they are getting into with an ARPG. Getting bots and bypassing the grindfest just means you need to go play something like guildwars where it’s all about skins and the grindfest is minimalized.
Look at WoW and how it removed the grindfest for leveling. WoW and D3 are very similar in that the real game occurs after getting to max level and getting said gear for max level.
Again, nonsense.
You have no idea what you are talking about… Diablo 3 Botting existed before the paragon system was added.
If Time played has any benefit to a game then bots will be advantageous because they can do it longer and more efficient than you can.
Ex: If paragon is nerfed into oblivion people will just farm bounties and (*yes they will still farm paragon because their 10k Stats over your 5k stats is still an advantage.)
Cheating will exist No matter how small the advantage.
Yet again Never punish legitimate players because of cheaters.
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Agree, changing the mechanics of the game for the bots as a root cause ultimately brings one to decide to just remove the game altogether if you use the same logic.
No game, no bots.
The reasoning is circular and doesn’t make sense. While there are gameplay reasons why people like to bot, i.e. tedious nature of the grind, etc, but if these are inherent design decisions, reverting or removing them may make for a game that wasn’t intended at all.
Fang, we understand completely but designing the game to reduce botting isn’t necessarily the best approach.
Designing the game to be worth playing should be the goal. A bot makes it seem it’s not worth playing and so a bot can do things you normally wouldn’t want to do.
That being said paragon linked progression and strength is important for a non-bot player too. Removing this would also remove the onus to do speed exp grifts and kill the end game for a lot of people as the end game would not be worth playing in general.
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It might.
People then would bot for perfect gear, since paragon wouldn’t be in play.
It still wouldn’t stop people using THUD either.
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I read what you said, it’s still a change based on reducing the incentive to bot.
I don’t agree with it.
Going from 5 to any lower number with the intent to reduce botting isn’t something I would do. Now if you said that paragon shouldn’t influence the game at all and remove it or reduce it with that in mind. Then the argument shifts to paragon being important or not - as opposed to botting.
The difference is subtle but important. How do you give endless meaningful progression without using time played as an analog to increased power? How fast does it need to occur for the player to feel it is meaningful?
No he doesn’t understand since hes judging everyone’s game play on his own casual style.
i gain 18,835 main stat from my paragon and by his change that would be reduced to 3,767…
I would quit the game, what would be the point of playing anymore.
Actually, that’s not the case, before leaderboards, I was always in the top 25-50 paragon in the USA up til around p1100 or so.
It was all human effort at that point.
To effectively reduce botting, you really need to have anti botting measures. Not anti bot gameplay design decisions.
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Now I get why you think nerfing paragon would benefit… you think they are struggling to detect cheaters… lol
So, this comes to understanding what blizzard resources are with relative to cheats. We have been told this is the job of the anti cheat team - not the dev team.
You are effectively taking the job of the anti cheat team and giving it to the dev team to deal with.
The dev team is supposed to develop a game that fits the vision of what they want to us to play or experience - ideally - (as if there were not bots in the world and we were to play legit).
The anti cheat team is supposed to get rid of the cheater (botters).
So maybe the solution is to increase the exposure of the team to D3 and increase resources to that team instead of wrecking the game through changes to combat botting through the devs.