Been awhile since I’ve seen this type of thread. Won’t say much besides the fact that I’ll simply be surprised if Blizzard actually does anything regarding Diablo 3’s difficulties, be it simply adding more torments or rescaling the existing ones (much preferable imo).
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A ton of builds can do GR75/T16 . A handful of builds can speed GR120/T26. If they just scale the Torments up to GR150/T32, everyone is either going to be funneled into the same small handful of builds or be relegated to solo mode.
Will there be some games running below the highest tier? Yes, but they are going to be the same 
show that is the public GR90s-130s you are talking about with 3 players waiting for someone to come in and carry them. Will there be a few smooth running games? Yes, but you are going to have to exit and leave and sift through the trash until you find one.
You guys all need to go back and look at when T6, TX, T13, T16 were first introduced. Only a handful of builds could handle those efficiently. Most group games were run at the highest Torment with everyone running the same 2-4 builds. The same is going to happen if they introduce T32. Whatever the highest torment is that a couple of builds can run efficiently at is where you are going to see the vast majority of group games.
It is not everyone’s preferred pace, but they are forced into it because if you don’t, you get horribly left behind. Again with T32, players will be pressed to conform to the few meta builds or become SSF players.
I agree, but limiting build diversity to improve farming is not the answer. Challenge rifts, set dungeons, ubers, PVP are all ways that could have been introduced to push your characters. Unfortunately, they were implemented horribly. These are the side projects that should give end game diversity, not farming. Fix the mentioned above and add some more is really what the game needs.
I am totally fine with that as long as they cap the xp too. If any rewards are higher in T26 than they are in T16, players are going to run T26. Everyone is going to be funneled into the same few builds and diversity would suffer.
I don’t want to have to play GoD DH because it is the only way I can play with other people. I want to play it because it is fun.
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I believe we’ll see players gravitating towards the Torment levels they are most comfortable with. Just like with greater rifts.
For speedier content:
P800-1000: GR90-100
P1000-1500: GR100-GR110
P1500-2000: GR105-115
P2000-3000: GR110-120
P3000-4000: GR115-125
P4000+: GR115+
It’s going to spread people apart, BUT… those buckets are likely to deliver more satisfying experiences when you’re paired with teammates who share the same goal as you.
This is 100% true. Many high paragon players avoid public groups right now because of this issue. There is a way to avoid this problem fully. After GR100 torment equivalent, set the minimum requirement as 90% of your maximum solo clear (ie. must solo clear GR135 to join in public GR150 games, GR108 solo to join in GR120 games, etc.).
If the higher Torments feel empty, it’s on the player to decide if they want to adjust their goal to play with others.
I came to this game when T13 was max, as a new player I remember having no issue in 2.4.2 being productive around P600-700 on a Demon Hunter. When T16 debuted, it was trivial. Keep in mind, this happened AFTER they reworked all of the set bonuses and upgraded LoN, people were soloing GR115-130 at that time. When they lowered the difficulty in PTR I was surprised.
Yes, it’s sad. I am guilty of leaving people in the dust as well.
The T16 loot drops can stay the same, but the bounty mats and keys drops has to increase and the experience does too.
We need experience rewards outside of Greater Rifts, purely based on monster kills and quest completion. GRs still remain best for exp, but why can’t I gain some paragon along the way if I’m earning it by killing harder monsters?
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Doesn’t that mean a filter for public games instead of random match making? We have been begging them to do it for years and they didn’t budge once. I don’t really care about higher scaling content but filter for paragon level in match making would be great regardless.
As for T20-T32 or whatever, if it were to apply, Blizzard will make sure they’re repeatable by the common playerbase instead of pushing them as a challenge and make sure rewards scaling accordingly.
So expect such scale up in difficulty after a huge overall buff after the patch, not before. This is iterated several times and people are just not willing to push the Greater Rifts instead of expecting such buff to their favorite build.
Loot rewards simply halt and stop at GR90 scale and onward; Rift Guardians don’t drop more legendary items past that tier. So rewards are questionable to scale up with the ever challenging difficulty. If you don’t care about rewards, you can keep farming Greater Rifts yet I’ve seen no one accepting this as an answer.
Many act bosses have invulnerability frames and more than one phase to confront the player. Making GR150 scale Act Boss fights balanced and fair must be hard enough. While players struggle at fighting one single Rift Guardian, they can still opt out any moment by Town Portal and expect no second phase.
Let’s get past that, currently for highest farming efficiency you have tweak your speedbuild by giving away some damage output and that’s fine as it encourages build diversity. Keeping Torment separated from Greater Rift scales, allow player to adapt and prepare for the oncoming task ahead; creating build diversity. Allowing T20-32 without any general buff, will only shine Greater Rift push builds ahead of speedbuilds as “one build does all”.
That’s not in their design pillars, nor I think there ever will be a place for such thing. Build diversity has to be preserved whether you like it or not.
A hardcore zdps player facing GR150 Malthael to die due keeping them in Crowd Control while they are invulnerable is not on their book. As well as your GR pushing Firebird or LoD WoL build being capable of farming DB at the highest efficiency without needing to ever stop or tweak anything.
I wasn’t expecting to see such threads but appears people just can’t curb their enthusiasm and accept the game is old yet it still has an integrity and balance to keep at it. Game can not offer you more than Greater Rifts, as time trials are the most sophisticated challenge this games can have. For build diversity, it won’t offer you its rewards on a plate either.
Hahaha curb your own enthusiasm and accept that people want the obvious deficiencies addressed.
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I wouldn’t mind this either, but some players with comparable paragon desire different difficulties. The rescaling of Torment addresses that better.
While, I don’t expect any updates and/or changes to the game’s difficulty system, I won’t say that it won’t ever happen and/or Blizzard shouldn’t focus on it. After all, I never expected Blizzard to actually revamp the followers, and yet season 23 proved me wrong.
Each of the difficulty scale ups arrived after a huge buff to overall damage output of Sets. If same pattern follows then this only tells me that they want to keep it separate for build diversity. Speed builds will stay as farm efficient and push builds will not achieve everything you want them to have.
Sad part is most likely that there’s no obvious deficiency for them as this kind of threads sprout around for years but up scales only happen after a huge buff. Appears there’s at least a month until season 24 to end, watch it closely and if there’s no overall buff to Sets then most likely T20 or T32 won’t happen.
After builds allowing hybrid Sets and tons of different things, I don’t mind a GR90 scale Torment level, I won’t lie but do we really need it?
Agreed, sometimes they unexpectedly surprise us with welcomed improvements. The Armory was another nice touch of QoL too.
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Sadly this won’t feel very different from T75, the power creep is too much. On non-season we are zipping around doing 120s in 2-3 minutes.
https://maxroll.gg/tierlists/solo-experience-farming-tier-list
Like others said, the first order of business is to balance the sets and skills. We play those through the Winter.
Next patch, revamp the Torment system and create new life from the same content – let us figure out which builds are best for bounties at different efficiencies, throw in some item improvements in that patch too.
Third best thing to do is introduce new loot tiers to keep us playing until D4 comes out.
Legendary gem reworks could get fit into any of these patches to spice up the patch notes.
What you will see is players gravitate towards builds that do the higher Torments. You already see this with GR’s. Check the leader boards. Look at underperforming sets. Very few outside the meta have a decent amount of players filling up the top 1000s. Many of those are players just running other builds to get the GR55 conquest. Are all those builds unfun to play? No. But why play a build that performs 20-40 GR’s lower? This is why people gravitate towards the meta builds and the same will happen with rifts/bounties if the bar gets pushed very high.
So if UE Dh runs T16 smooth, but can’t run T24, but GoD runs T24 smooth and I get a ton more bounty mats, keys, xp, why in the hell would I ever play UE? Again. T32 with scaled benefits is going to reduce build diversity, especially in group games.
The speed efficiency. Your UE can dash through T16 to do all acts in 18-20 mins flat to gather 22 piece per Horadric Cache, if your GoD6 does the T24 in 25-28 mins for 28 pieces per Cache, then yes, you will play UE for efficiency per reward for rinse and repeat.
If they were to decide a bump they have to play test this for quite a while before moving forward. In case, and only if, most builds are having very efficient runs at T16 THEN they may decide to bump the difficulty a notch without a power amplification.
Hey! Hey you… have you heard the word of Hardcore?
There a difficult mode called Lag and unforeseen disconnections, it is ideal for those bored with T16 Bounties/Rifts
Yes, this happens automatically. It trickles down into regular rifts too. Multishot was excellent for key farming, but… DH use GoD6 as the swiss army knife for everything GRs, Bounties, Rifts. You don’t see UE6 Multishot much in pub rifts.
Crusader has it a bit better, Fist of the Heaven’s is the best key/bounty farming skill… it’s good for paragon grinding too, but it is eclipsed by Bombardment and Heaven’s Fury in push.
Exactly, it just reinforces the need for set/skill balance – fix those underperforming builds first. I thought the data gleaned from Set Leaderboard Filters would have helped expedite those edits.
If they rescale the difficulties id like them to fix loot also. Less is more sometimes.
Example, Instead of 4 legendary drops per chest id like to see 1 drop every 5 chests with a greater chance of ancient.
If, by increasing difficulty, build options open to allow me to play what I want to play, with skills I like and not be shoehorned into a particular character style (because everything else is ineffectual) than I am all for it. But, I don’t want to have to keep using the same build forever.
The best part of D3 is the leveling to 70 and those very first paragon levels (to about 150, maybe 250) when you may not have a complete set - that’s when you get to actually fuss about with skills to see what the character “could” do and not “must” do.
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I’m usually on the side with the torment increase argument, one that voiced heavily on T13 and T16 to begin with because they made sense for the time. Now we’ve been pretty power capped so unless they plan on bringing up a lot of sets and builds deemed just good for speed farming sets to GR meta contenders then there isn’t a reason.
However…these power increases in the past few seasons are enough to justify at least T19, overall nearly all sets in the game would be able to handle or speed GR90 which would be T19. To put the issue to bed once and for all you could even just stay T20 and skip to GR100 with that and lay it to rest forever since we’re not going any higher from the GR140 standard of max set pushing power non-seasonal power.
T32 just doesn’t make sense…oh yes let’s gather some zdps to get some keys or do a bounty group for an hour…like no. No amount of reward scaling would make that option worth it.
One thing to really consider as the best counter-argument since yes admittingly those are bad and outdated excuses is that it’s actually pretty meta to solo T16 rifts right now. You jack it 10 tiers + higher you once again force group being the best option and solo bites the dust…again.
Bounty rewards are like this:
Tx - 10 mats
T11 - 12 mats
T12 - 14 mats
…
T16 - 22 mats,
following this pattern, T24 would give 38 crafting mats.
If my UE does gets me 22 mats in 20 minutes on T16 and GoD gets me 46 mats in 30 minutes, I would be stupid from an efficiency standpoint to run UE. On top of this is the xp. The xp on T24 (GR120) would be huge compared to T16 (GR75).
Except with T16 as the cap, you have build options. With T32, you lose those. I personally do not like the GoD set. When I do rifts/bounties, I will switch to UE. A lot of players won’t because they don’t want to go to the trouble of switching builds. If T22, T24 whatever becomes the new norm, now I have to play GoD or play solo.
If they bother to fix all the underperforming sets then all of this becomes a mute point. Unfortunately, after 7 years, they still haven’t balanced the top build in each class with each other, so you are looking at another 20-30 years before they balance all the rest of the set builds.
If they could get reasonable balance with 35 set builds plus a LOD or 2, I would be fine with T32, but until then, leave it like it is, so I can actually play some part of the game with my friends.
I mean, maybe ZDPS shouldn’t have been allowed to thrive and a party of 4 random DPS should be able to clear all content if appropriately geared. This is one aspect of the “balance” debate that some people are unwilling to touch because it challenges some of the efficiency traps the community has fallen into similar to needed bounty overhauls.
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