There’s something inherently wrong with the statement that the person clearing it was at so and so paragon.
When comparing to top clears, they are all made at that level, and usually made by the people who can push the build to the max.
So someone clearing 150 with 12k paragon is stronger than someone clearing 145 with the same paragon but a different class/build.
I am also running 100s on console (haven’t leveled on PC yet), but I don’t see it as squishy at all. I’m running every kind of DR I can get (Crimson, Wraps, Dark Heart, etc) as well as Fortress and as much Vitality as I feel I need without dropping damage too low.
Personally, I feel like it has enough defense with the right gear, but like the Arcane Twister LoD build…not enough output to push very far when running defensively. I will have to try other setups before I’m ready to call it on that one though.
Not really, someone at that level is probably going to be better geared, have spent a lot more time studying the ins and outs of the builds, working out what maps to farm for etc.
So when I refer to someone at that level, I am more talking about someone who has the time to put that much effort and concentration into the playstyle.
You could gift a 2K paragon player, a 12K paragon account and even with the perfect gear and rift, there is still very little chance they clear a 150.
Having said all that, this build maybe very strong…so what? It’s about time DH’s got their time in the sun.
I am very prepared to concede it could be a gearing issue, or lack of concentration, or not understanding the build completely, or one of a hundred other things that caused it.
The main thing I did note, for me at least, I found the build a lot of fun to play.
Same here, and I typically hate “fiddly” builds. I will eagerly and happily admit that I like simple builds with long-lasting buffs and a single attack button (my PoJ Tempest Rush Monk comes to mind), but there’s something about this particular set that I find interesting and entertaining to play.
I’ll be pretty upset if people who don’t really understand how it works get their way and get it trashed. But…really, what build doesn’t end up that way these days? Pretty much just a matter of time.
My recommendation is to enjoy it while it lasts. Because it won’t.
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Of course they should have, but they would eventually be nerfed. Either its gonna happen now or after this season.
No matter what, they have passed the threshold that other builds did and they will get pushed back. But I would give them a season atleast before, so clears stabilize and more people have geared up properly.
I’d be interested to see if there is something weird going on with VB, and hear from the Dev’s if it exists, and/or if it was intended.
Maybe if it’s just a VB issue, they can fix that and leave the rest of the set alone.
Time will tell I guess.
It may be too early to know whether there exists an actual bug with the DH item/set. However, I disagree with the notion that it’s sometimes okay to leave undocumented bugs that betray the rules.
My comments have nothing to do with build power/capability, player enjoyment, or “taking someone’s fun away.” I am focusing on the developer side here. In a perfect game players will not need to concern themselves about whether something is “intended” because mechanics will be fair and sound. The accuracy of a build’s math and mechanics is orders of magnitude more important than what tier it can clear. A developer with pride should never leave an unsound mechanic for the purpose of increasing player happiness. If they leave it in the game due to cost/benefit considerations I understand and I have no issue with that as long as it is acknowledged and announced.
In games which claim to be structured around rules driven by math, it is of paramount importance that builds are mechanically sound and logical rules are respected. If I were a game designer the most embarrassing thing to me would be if my logic was not sound and builds were actually betraying the rules.
The rules need not be explicitly stated or spelled out in exhaustive detail, but they must be there and be absolutely watertight. Clever players can creatively test and confirm mechanics, but it’s unacceptable to say “well it shouldn’t really work but I guess it just does for some reason, oh well.”
We already know there is a bug with the new Necro scythe build that will presumably be going live. Simulacrums benefit from Leger’s Disdain even when no essence is generated. This is absolutely illogical and should be fixed, not because I have anything against the build/class/players, but for the sake of the developer’s pride/respect of the rules of the game they created. I would not at all describe that as a nerf because it shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
Bazooka Wizard was illogical. Channeling bonuses cannot be present during archon form. This was fixed after an embarrassing long delay, albeit in an inelegant way that greatly impacted a number of already proven builds.
Arguing against logic is not rational. Luckily this is just a game and the stakes are so low that it doesn’t matter AT ALL.
SETP FOR STEP Why Vallas is bugged
So one day later, we now have 3 DH GR 150 clears including a player under 10K paragon. The top DH GR 150 clear is a player with 10.6K paragon in under 13 minutes.
| Rank | BattleTag | Class | GR | Time | Paragon | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 魔法之龟#531995 <快乐喜唰唰> | demon hunter | 150 | 12:57 | 10605 | |
| 2 | 아르고스#3906 <아이유> | demon hunter | 150 | 13:15 | 12302 | |
| 3 | 滕小七#5232 <封神会> | demon hunter | 150 | 14:49 | 9936 |
The patch is still less than a week old. More and more GR 150 clears will be made as time goes by and some presumably will be for under 10K paragon players.
You can also compare this data to witch doctors and crusaders to see how many players of those classes who were under 10K paragon players cleared GR 150 during the entirety of patch 2.6.8. Both crusaders and witch doctors were nerfed in patch 2.6.9.
Edit: Morning 6/30/2020
Now there are 6 solo GR 150 clears for demon hunters.
Seriously DH was most of the time and by this i mean like 99% the whole period of D3 the least favored class by blizzard.
Is it really butthurting you that much dear Mr. Barb and Ms. Wizz that DHs can shine for one season too ?
Don’t worry in S22 after the rebalancing patch it will be probably 8the last in terms of power again because you know… DH is always gonna stay the black sheep in D3.
Err . . . huh?
My problems with wall-charging were as follows:
I never complained that it was “unfair.” I didn’t even necessarily advocate for it’s removal since that would greatly weaken what were then our two most powerful builds. I’m not sure wall-charging can be fixed, whatever that means. People used R6 HOTA to argue that Barbs were fine and didn’t need buffs, which was clearly bunko. The conversation surrounding wall-charging wasn’t as simple as you’re pretending it was, and as Phoenix pointed out, you don’t seem to understand why we wanted to address wall-charging indirectly.
I’m not sure where this mentality of “It you do it to X, you should do it to Y” comes from, but it really needs to go away. Context matters. The concerns of a class community matter. What is “a lot stronger” in the context of GoD? I’d prefer to let the DH community experts and veterans decide that.
No, I quite agree, sir.
Please don’t misunderstand. As a Barb community veteran, I 100% support DHs being strong. I, and the greater Barb community, do not advocate for nerfs. The folks arguing for nerfs are generally not welcomed in the Barb forum.
If the exploit is there on valla’s, then it is needed for it to reach the max potential on GoD.
You did, but in the sense that it was a broken mechanic needed to reach that max. If the mechanic had persisted on Chargebarb but they had been the top build even among other classes, would people have paid mind to that exploit?
Sure that there are people who claimed that they were fine because they could clear as high as they could, but barbs were quite quick to point that it was a broken mechanic that gave high clears. Now there is a possible exploit that is being used to give higher potential than it should have, and now it’s suddenly okay?
If this variant clears 3-4 levels higher than the second best variant, then something is wrong with it. But I said also that the other variants were doing fine, they were quite stable, so fixing this bug may be enough and no further change would be needed.
I could be wrong though and overall it’s too strong, but then I also said that we could leave it for one season for the numbers to stabilize.
And yet that is the likely outcome whether you like it or not. And again, the mentally of no nerfs only buffs isn’t shared by blizzard, shown by earlier examples on wd, necro, crus and wizard.
I have tested vallas and do not see any “awesome” dps increase …
how about 1k DH potential? I only see ridiculous garbage like:
So with my WD at the beginning of s20 I cleared lvl 120 the first time with just over 1k and did not go higher. that’s what i call a usable set!
I like DH and the new set is far from ridiculous OP claims!
That’s the thing people aren’t understanding. I see a lot of “in certain situations” (situations are never described in detail, no proof ever given on which exact conditions, etc), “seems like”, and “randomly occurs”, etc, etc. Science is repeatable. If it cannot be replicated on demand, it isn’t happening.
In any case, if it was the game-ending bug they’re all claiming, it would be a lot more obvious and have a higher variance than what we’re seeing. Unless there is another item or combination of items (not just Valla’s Bequest, but a combination of items interacting with it), I don’t buy it.
We finally have the set which makes Strafe viable, and other players are upset about it. That’s the real bug here.
Biased Player Feedback is OP. Please nerf.
You win the forum for the day! 
I did some (very limited) testing on my own, in the PS4 version. Please note that my testing was not as extensive as Iria’s, and also that I make no claims of authority or whatever else might be falsely attributed to me, etc, etc, disclaimer, disclaimer, and so on.
What I saw was a significant increase in clear time on my GR100 runs. It’s impossible for me to keep track of whether any mythical secondary procs are happening in all that mess, but I tried my best to keep an eye out for them. Didn’t see any. What I did see was a faster trash-clearing potential once I switched to Rocket Storm or whatever the grenade rune is called (I literally just used it and can’t remember).
My theory at this time is that the additional projectiles from those two runes are the real reason players are clearing faster than the general community thinks they should. It could be that these players are throwing Valla’s Bequest into their builds to try to shift focus to an item which has no bug, in order to hide the benefit of the runes so they won’t get nerfed.
Again, my testing was too limited to be conclusive. Might have just been some lucky runs. In any case, the benefit I saw was nothing close to what’s being claimed.
As always, when conclusive, repeatable proof is shown that there is a game-breaking bug happening here, I will change my opinion. Not before.
EDIT: While we’re on the subject, just to make it perfectly clear, I do not care if Valla’s Bequest gets nerfed. I don’t care if it’s removed from the game altogether. I care if the build gets destroyed because people are bandwagoning on an unproven mythical bug.
We all know that Blizzard is not above collateral damage. We know that from the Star Pact exploit. If the cry-wolf crowd gets their way, there’s nothing to prevent the developers from damaging or destroying the build outright, trying to solve a problem we don’t even know for sure exists.
We need proof. Not hearsay, not belief, not “a friend of a friend who knows a guy”. Proof.
Sorry I’m new-ish, can you clarify why Calamity is bad? It seems like a solid way to get 15% increase in DPS?
On the DH forum there is a topic on calamity and it explains why it’s no good.
I have been running GRs and blowing up a massive amount of mats the last few days and I have yet to see a Valla’s bequest since this patch dropped.