Denial is a coping mechanism that gives you time to adjust to distressing situations — but staying in denial can interfere with treatment or your ability to tackle challenges.
When denial can be helpful:
Refusing to face facts might seem unhealthy. Sometimes, though, a short period of denial can be helpful. Being in denial gives your mind the opportunity to unconsciously absorb shocking or distressing information at a pace that won’t send you into a psychological tailspin.
Moving past denial:
When faced with an overwhelming turn of events, it’s OK to say, “I just can’t think about all of this right now.” You might need time to work through what’s happened and adapt to new circumstances.
But it’s important to realize that denial should only be a temporary measure — it won’t change the reality of the situation.
I am pretty sure nearly everybody cares if it is 20% or 800%.
For the power/efficiency type A players, it changes what is optimal, and when. Bigger imbalances makes their hunt for efficiency more disjointed. The difference between having that 800% item vs. not having it, matters a lot more than if it was only a 20% increase.
For the type B players (if they exist, I’d argue they are all variations of your Player C group), it changes the definition of what sucks or not. They will likely have a better experience playing their “fun” build if it is only “a little” behind the viable builds. Even if they dont care about efficiency, in the end they still want to see things die without hitting the boss for 2 hours.
Should be per build in that case.
As in, some (most) builds might have a legendary chest (or rare+consumable) they will want to use. Other builds might prefer rare items, because there are no legendary effects that really helps the build etc.
Generic “always best” items like Enigma, really shouldn’t exist.
Yes and no imo.
There should be no such thing as +5 to Wizard skills. Too generic. Too useful for all builds at the same time.
Make it +5 to fire skills, +5 to projectile skills, +5 to healing skills and such.
Passively waiting between fights would be a huge efficiency loss, so it should be doable to balance that out.
You could choose to wait out the cooldown, but you had probably be better off using a different build then.
No reason that should be the case.
You can have linear cycles without cooldowns too. It speaks more to the design of the skills; skill A buffing skill B etc. Such a design is fine, as it encourages build synergies. But there should also be skills that are context dependent. Like dealing fire dmg to an enemy weak to fire, or dealing more dmg to an enemy that got stunned by a proc. Even with cooldowns on skills, that cant lead to a linear cycle of attacks, since you would want to use the skills when they are most efficient.
I can say the same for you who can’t recognize the main problem with D2 as well. It is pointless to discuss the direction of D4 with you too.
Yes, you are. You said D2 rare has its place, and I correct you by telling you that D2 rare has its place because most of the D2 unique itself is so weak and pitiful that it can get replaced by a rare. If D2 unique have legendary power like D3 legendary power, it won’t happen.
Enigma and Infinity proved that D2 rare can’t hope to compete with them at the slot that they are competing at.
Exactly. It is because the unique or runeword (if there is one) that trying to compete with rare at a certain slot itself is weak and pitiful.
Nope. It shouldn’t.
The list that you mentioned doesn’t enhance your build. It is more like enhancing overall your character than the build itself.
In case you forgot that Gyrfalcon’s Foote allows your Crusader to ditch the generator or other skill that focusing on Wrath regeneration/generator since you are no longer required to maintain your Wrath to use Blessed Shield, thus allowing you to a new skill to synergize.
Whether it is a reference or not, it has nothing to do with our discussion. All you need to know that D3 legendary made your skill better instead of just increasing its damage.
Too bad for them because if they care about it so much, they should use the optimized build. Or else, deal with it.
Nope, the game was designed that players are supposed to figure out the correct way to beat the game, like focusing on strengthening your character so you can beat the final boss. D3 has many viable builds too when it comes to clearing T16 but whether it is efficient or not, it is up for the players to judge that.
Type C can still win the game. They just choose to play something less efficient than stronger build but in the end, they still can win the game.
Better design that everyone is using +4 skill weapon regardless of what build they are playing.
So we are discussing how bad is D3 itemization now? I always thought we are discussing D2 vs D3 itemization here. Oh yeah, and I glad that most of the affixes in your list don’t make into D3 legendary power. Most of them are boring and unimpactful and worse than Frozen Orb explodes twice itself.
Really? I feel that 800% weaker in D3 is like 8%~15% weaker in D2 terms at best.
Whether it is 15% weaker or 800% weaker, Type C knew what and where they are heading for the moment that they decide to play a certain build.
First you said every D3 wand is boring as they just increasing damage for every X skill in a different package/outlook, and I correcting you that not every D3 wand gives a flat damage boost as they also give 2nd effect, and now you said they are too strong. It sure looks like you are moving the goalpost here.
Again, I told you before. I like the item that has a defined role instead of being an item that can be used by every build or class.
D3 itemization is an improvement over D2 itemization. Instead of just being a stat stick and % chance to do something cool, it altering skill and the gameplay of your character as a whole. It is far more interesting than “+4 to all wizard skill”.
Seriously, you really like “% chance to do something cool” mod that much huh?
You should just accept that Monster Immunity is a feature and part of D2 at this point. It won’t go away from D2.
It is awesome for the right reason. It made one elemental build special and terrifying. Truly a game-changer item tier.
Even if D3 legendary has the same 400 max INT as rare, the legendary power will still win over rare. Do you want to equip rare boots that have 400 INT or a legendary boot that has 400 INT and allow you to walk through the monsters?
If D2 unique rings have as many D3 legendary rings with legendary power to pick from, do you really think none of those rings with legendary power will lose to the D2 rare?
Yes, if only the legendary boot only has 50 seconds cooldown teleport with no affixes while Rare has +4 to all skills, 25% MS, 100HP, 100 DEF, 100 Resistance to all.
But you know that these kinds of boots won’t exist right? At least not in D2 or D3. Even Enigma itself comes with a lot of good stats.
It is an amazing legendary item. Then it is a must-get legendary tier for me. As I said before, I like an item that has defined role and purpose.
I am saying it was bad because I know it won’t get balanced because it was a 20 years old game.
Nope, they shouldn’t.
You should know that they are not going to remove CC and CHD or else, they would have done it 5 years ago.
I agree, but according to Kilometer no one really cares how big the difference is because all the players are just playing to win (according to him).
This is what I am trying to tell to Kilometer.
I agree as well.
I think there should be all of the ones you just mentioned as well as +x to [class] skills and also +x to all skills.
+x to class skills and +x to all skills can roll lower (like a maximum of +3 for example), while the +x [elemental]/projectile/defensive/healing/melee/ranged/spell/etc skills should roll maybe a bit higher (like +5-6).
So they actually did have their place which means there was nothing wrong with what I said.
But the actual question that we have to ask and the point I am tring to make to you is if rare items should be able to compete with legendaries in at least some slots.
For me the answer is definitely yes. It makes rare and magic items useful and exciting to pick up when in some slots they are BiS items and in other slots can compete with legendaries for the BiS slot (where the question is "do I wanna have a special effect or do I wanna have a ton of affixes instead)? and that is an exiting decision to make.
Taking two of the most OP, game-breaking and infamous items as an example for why rare items suck …
But it also could have gone another way. What if rare items had 20 affixes instead of just 6? What if the game would have been designed that way while uniques stayed the way they currently are? Wouldn’t that have proven that uniques/legendaries can’t hold up with rare items?
And btw. I think that unique/legendaries should be the BiS items for weapons, off-hand and chest armor.
While for slots like e.g. boots, helm, rings, amulets, belts, legendaries could compete with rare and magic items for the BiS.
I wouldn’t say that uniques in these slots were “weak and pitiful” (they are in your opinion), but they also do not have to massively powerful by default.
There is nothing wrong with rare and magic items being able to compete with uniques/legendaries in certain slots, and in fact, I would say that (in my opinion) it makes itemization better.
In your opinion.
Define the difference between “build” and “character” in this context.
And the point of you saying that is…?
You also can put a lot of points into resource cost reduction and get RCR and increased resource generation on a few item pieces and you will rarely run out of resource, which also allows you to ditch the generator…
Let’s be honest here, the vast, vast majority of legendaries in D3 that “make your skill better” are also just only increasing their damage by a ton.
Things like the Unstable Scepter are rather the exception.
Also, your Arcane Orb exploding twice is basically the same as 100% increased Arcane Orb damage.
And I do not count things like “Seismit Slam also costs 50% less resource” or “Multishot attacks 50% faster” as being special or interesting.
Maybe your perspective is the problem here and not the Type C players that make up a large amount of the playerbase.
And you will still be fine if your builds is only 20% more powerful and not just 800%.
But according to your logic, all the skills, the items and even characters that are not the #1 thing could be removed, right?
Or would you like the game if there is one builds that is 100.000 times more powerful than the second best build? Just one build that rules them all and no other build can compete, regardless of how hard they try. Oh, and did I forgot to mention that this build is also kinda boring to play? Well, I guess you just have to get over it…
But Type C players do not want to win. They have no desire to win. They do not play the game to win.
They play for expressing themself with builds that are still viable.
They don’t care about optimal builds, but they still wanna play viable builds.
In your opinion…
+4 to all skills is probably ~20-30% increased damage in D3, dunno, but it definitely is not as ridiculous as 800% or whatever.
Also, +x to all skills is just one affix and not the only reason for why a specific item gets chosen.
As I said several times before, you can also combine the +x to all skills affix with one of these special powers that I mentioned in various of my posts.
That a unique is useful for various builds and you also have the choice between various other uniques that are also useful for various builds is a good thing and not a bad thing, because it actually allows you to have a meaningful choice.
But that is just my opinion…
The point is that Type C players will be pissed if they are significantly weaker than the best builds, aka not viable, aka not efficient, just for expressing themself.
Players like you who play to win will loose nothing from just being e.g. 15% stronger than all the other builds, but Type C Players will loose their whole motivation to play the game if the gap is 800%.
There is no reason not shorten the gap.
Sure, not every legendary just gives you an xxx% damage boost, but for the most part that is all they do (and I do not count 50% increased attack speed or reduced resource cost to Skill X as being that special).
The issue is intertwined with several other issues that together form a complex.
Yes, YOU LIKE IT THAT WAY.
I strongly disagree for the various reasons that I mentioned here in this thread.
And as I said, that is fine, but these skill-specific things do not belong on items, but rather on a skill system.
And how is that one not more interesting than 800% increased damage and 50% reduced resource costs to Skill X?
I know. All I am saying is that it is bad design.
So it basically enabled builds (that should be viable from the get-go), rather than improving it.
And that is not good design imo.
I would rather want to have the choice between a rare with 6 affixes (or maybe even 8 or 9 affixes, after it has been enchanted in the cube for example) and a legendary with 5 affixes and the additional special affix that allows me to walk through enemies (or maybe only after being hit or falling below 60% life, or whatever - to balance it).
That actually would be a much more interesting choice, you know.
Wasn’t it you who said that you do not want to discuss fiction? But okay…
Again, the answer is: “it depends”, and it depends on various factors.
We have been at this point several times now…
I actually didn’t thought that you would double down on that and support such a design, since what you did here was to agree with bad game design.
That item would just be mandatory and take away all choice for that slot.
Not having choice = bad.
Then those won’t be classified as “rare” tier anymore.
My argument with Clueso was stemmed from Clueso’s “I don’t like how you think D3 itemization is better than D2 itemization”. So our discussion is never about “The Future of Diablo” here.
And I told you that D2 rare is able to compete with D2 unique because most of D2 unique are weak. This doesn’t make that D2 itemization is better. It is just most D2 unique are weak.
Because Enigma and Infinity are actually a game-charger item tier. I sm simply showing you that a good rare can’t compete against the real game-charger item tier.
Are you sure that item with 20 affixes is still qualified as “rare” tier? Again, it doesn’t happen in D2 and D3.
The only way for rare to win the slot is not having a legendary item with the power compete for the item slot or rare has 57 affixes.
There is nothing wrong for legendary item with legendary power to win over rare with legendary power too. And my opinion is why D3 itemization is better due to legendary power synergy.
I can say the same thing to you.
Because the item doesn’t affect or amplify your build but rather your character? Instead of shooting something better with your frozen orb, now your character can trigger a free meteor for 1% chance whether from attacking with frozen orb or normal attack or random spell that is not frozen orb.
Even if you invested as much RCR as possible in the game, you still can’t throw free Blessed Shield because the game doesn’t allow you to reach 100% RCR, so in the end, you still have to generate the depleted Wrath of your Crusader from somewhere else.
True enough but it doesn’t change that most of them are indeed making your skill better without it. For example: Soul Harvest became a nuke for WD.
Compare back to D2 itemization, most unique doesn’t even tweak your skill or altering your gameplay.
Then you are wrong, If you think players will lose the motivation to play if the is gap is 800%, then what are those people that I encountered in the public bounty? An AI? I run a lot lot lot of public bounty in this season. Their build is so unoptimized for speed split bounty run yet they just go for it. I can clear 5 bounties while these Type C only managed to clear like 2 or 3 bounties.
Neither they are complaining when I cleared the bounty faster than them. It is all in your head that you think Type C players care about what others did. Neither of them says “sorry” to me when they realized they are the one who slows down the entire bounty run, and neither I demand an apology for dragging me down because we all know that this is what happens if people use unoptimized build and group up with random.
They care to win. They want to see monsters fall and died. If they don’t care about winning, they won’t even bother with the viable build. Viable build allows you to win but not as efficient as other the real strong build.
Nope. If the +4 to all wizard skill wand exists, it will be like at least 400% power increment in the D3 standard.
And I said before, every class regardless of what build that ended up using the same generic item in the endgame is bad design and bland.
Or you know, you could just admit that you are wrong to claim that all d3 legendary wands are just a stat stick instead of keeps bringing new and unnecessary argument into it.
Thank you.
And I had given my reasons on my claim in this very same thread.
It won’t be happening for D3. So stop bringing this.
You intentionally pick the blandest option instead of the interesting one to make your point? Among all the things you can suggest, it always ended up with %1 to do something cooler.
No offense, but Tal Rasha allows 100% free elemental meteor to be cast on the enemy if you hit the enemy is with right elemental is far better than your 3% chance to cast free meteor thing.
And it won’t go away regardless of how many times you pointed out.
That is how the game was meant to be played. Yes. Nothing wrong with that. Different game has a different way of playing.
Allowing your character to walk thru the pack of monsters is more interesting than just giving more raw stats to your character. Changing your character’s gameplay is always a good design.
Fair enough.
D3 rings have many interesting legendary power, so I doubt a simple life leech from rare will able to compete with them. If anything, your post about Ravenforst just supported my claim that most D2 unique is too weak to fight the perfect rare.
Is that so? To me, if picking any choice and you still win, it is bad as well.
Then stop bringing up in our discussion. You need to remember that our discussion is not about the “Future of Diablo” but your disagreement with my claim.
I understand, but not every slot had or should have had a game changing unique.
Also, if rare items would be designed to have 45+ affixes, then probably even those RW’s you mentioned could not compete with them.
This also does not make Infinity (and the issues surrounding it) and Enigma any better or less problematic.
And if rare items hat 25+ affixes?
It is all just a matter of how you design them.
Why shouldn’t it?
I am not saying that rare items should have 25+ affixes, but that even if they had 25+ affixes, they still would be rare items.
You know what also does not apply to D2? Unique items being by default better in every item slot…
Yeah, and what is the problem with that?
You have to make a choice between a ton of affixes (aka a rare item) and a decent amount of affixes + a special power (unique / legendary). That sounds like an interesting decision to make for me.
Also a legendary power does not has to be by default 3 times the power of a normal affox.
And vice versa there is also nothing wrong for a rare item that got upgraded several items (e.g. by a cube recipe that adds additional normal affixes) to win against a legendary (in some slots).
That is right. I am not denying that.
But your Arcane Orb exploding twice is not a build or even a character changer, but rather a skill-changer.
And of course something like a 10% chance to cast Meteor on attack is enhancing your power/build/character or whatever you wanna call it since it increases your dps regardless of with what skill you are using the item.
It was theoretical to show you that RCR is nothing really special, but rather just a bloated normal stat.
Not all uniques and legendaries have to alter gameplay, but I thik that some definitely should and I also agree that there are too little of these in D2.
The D2 mods Median XL, Ressurgence and iirc Path of Diablo did a fairly good job adding some new interesting effects to D2’s uniques.
But beyond that, skill changing effects imo belong on the skill system, not on items, that is why I don’t consider these things on D3 as counting towards itemization.
Probably because these were not Type C players and probably also because the vast amount of Type C players have already abandoned the game many years ago.
As I said: winning and ‘being efficient’ are related, but they are not by default the same.
I do not want to explain that again.
You know what is also bad design? Every Frozen Orb build in the game using the same item in the endgame and every Fireball build using the same item in the endgame, etc.
The difference between what I am suggesting is that you want one single BiS item for some specific skills each, while I want various BiS items for various skills, which in the end results in more choice.
Actually no.
I just calculated it using a D2 skill calculator and I was really spot on with my estimate.
A Level 20 Fireball deals an average of 242 fire damage.
A Level 24 Fireball deals an average of 314 fire damage.
So a Level 24 Fireball deals ~29.75% more damage than a Level 24 Fireball.
I know, but that is not the point.
Yeah, like all 8 seconds or so.
And it is funny that you suddenly refer to the procs as “the interesting” stuff, as if this is not the whole thing that I suggesting all the time (that even if it is jsut a proc, it still is more interesting than xxx% increased damage),
Well, I disagree, but that would turn the conversation into a direction of why D3’s sets and legendaries are detrimental for build diversity, because they funnel you into very specific builds with specific skills/skill combinations instead of enhancing your build regardless of what skills/build you use.
I agree, but making the choice between less affixes + walking through enemies (when below 50% life) and a ton of affixes (aka a rare item) is still an interesting choice to make.
Yeah, but again, what is wrong with that?
I mean, maybe rares in some slots should be able to compete with legendaries, but only after they have been enhanced in the cube with a recipe that only effects rare items.
What is bad is when you pick and choose and it is not viable, although it should be, when it should be,
Viable =/= Winning.
Yes, because I think D2’s itemization was better and had more potential than D3’s.
Why not? If every of your legendary item has such an amazing game changer ability, why not letting all the gear slot to have one? You shouldn’t care about the item color, but what the item can do for your character in the long run.
Also what choice? Instead of having 13 slots filled with red color, your version will be something like 5 slots will be always red and the rest of 8 will be always yellow.
D2 rare doesn’t have 25 affixes or more. Most D2 unique don’t have superpower and have fixed affixes on them either, thus a glorified stat stick. Of course, most of the D2 unique will lose hard if it tries to fight rare in the department that rare has potential to excel at. Strong Runeword in the very same game proved that beating rare isn’t that difficulty if it has good stats and a super power.
If every game has 25 affixes, then the rare with 25 affixes will be rare, but if rare is the only item with 25 affixes and the rest of the item in the game has 4-6 affixes, nope, the rare with 25 affixes is certainly not qualified as rare, but its own tier that even surpassing legendary. Calling it as Primal/God is more fitting here.
Because most D2 unique is designed to be weak?
I have said many times, the only way for rare to beat a legendary item with legendary power is rare getting its own legendary power. D4 developers understood it and that is they introduce legendary consumable for D4 rare.
Rare with 6 perfect affixes + legendary power > D3 legendary item with strong and fixed affixes + legendary power > rare that only roll perfect affixes with no power.
Why is not? I am playing Frozen Orb build and my Frozen Orb is now stronger can it can do cool stuff because of Unstable Scepter. But your version is not your build is getting stronger, but your character is just got better in everything.
There is a huge difference between 0% cost and 50% cost. Plus, I didn’t need to sacrifice my limited stats for RCR because the legendary item solved it for me, and it open more options for my build since I don’t need the generator anymore or wearing items or passive that can generate Wrath for my Crusader.
It doesn’t matter whether how you consider these things in D3 but D3 legendary item can alter your character skill and gameplay is real.
If those Type C has abandoned the game for many years, then Blizzard has no reason to make any changes to cater to them. Catering the remaining player base that still playing this game is the right choice here.
Neither that viable builds mean it should/can stand to an equal ground as strong build.
Still a better design because every class and every different build is using different item setup instead of everyone and every build in the game is using the same weapon, same jewelry, same boots and etc.
If you actually following D3 balance patch, you should know that Blizzard tends to buff the skill damage by 400% damage or more. They never buff a skill at 30% or lesser. So I don’t know why do you use D2 formula when D2 and D3 are just a different game and using a different formula to buff/nerf their respective skills.
We are not discussing about “Do you think D3 legendary item that buff X skill should have be a tree specific rune?” either.
8 seconds per meteor.
I am bringing Tal Rasha as an example to show you that your obsession with % chance modifier is getting unhealthy. Tal Rasha does the XXX increased damage and proc is far better than your version of proccing.
You can disagree all you want. Discussing this further will not change how D2 and D3 were played here.
If you play D3 long enough, you should know that most affixes that require a condition (below 50%HP) to trigger its benefits are not that popular. People will just go for more consistent legendary power or something that easier to utilize.
For Necromancer, which boots that most likely that they want to use in all situation?
Boots A
Gain up to 29% increased movement speed based on amount of Life missing. [25 - 30]%
VS
Boots B
You gain 45% increased movement speed for 10 seconds after using Blood Rush.
The answer is simple, Boots B will win because it is easier to trigger its bonus. Losing health to trigger the movement speed bonus is just risky and ineffective when it comes to speed farming or staying alive.
Nothing wrong than weaker item lost to better item. I am just saying if D2 rings have as many legendary power as D3 rings, a mere rare ring won’t able to win, but the reality is D2 unique rings don’t have that, so it is not a surprise that D2 rare can win so easily.
If it is not viable, then it is not viable no matter how hard you are telling to yourself.
I don’t see how “I knew that they won’t change CC and CHD but I still bringing up and suggesting how CC and CHD should be changed for D3” has to do with our discussion again?
Off topic? For your information, my discussion with Clueso is never about “The Future of Diablo”. It was his disagreement with my claim that our discussion started. Also, I am not the only one derailing the topic. It is Clueso and I. Why do you single out Clueso from this? Biased too much?
I am using those boots as an example that Clueso’s version of boot that allows walking through enemies (when below 50% life) is destined to be failed here.
The typical “But s/he started first” type of behavior. What a great way to “win an argument” and keep being an absolute moron, that’s the spirit m8, legit one
Let’s not push the responsibility on me alone. The very topic creator of this thread made a statement that “D2 itemization is better”, and I responded it with “Nope, D3 itemization is better” and Clueso came and told me “NOPE, D2 itemization is better because…”.
If you are a fair guy, you would have calling Clueso and me out but you didn’t. This showing you have a clear favoritism here maybe because he likes Diablo 2 as you do, I guess?
“D2 itemization is better”, and I responded it with “Nope, D3 itemization is better” and Clueso came and told me “NOPE, D2 itemization is better because…”
Emphasized the important part, that even you yourself seem to have understood well, just didn’t accept, which is also perfectly fine. Even if you’re right the MAJORITY seem to understand that things “didn’t go so well” and some changes will/would-be required. The important part is to minimize those changes and define each with a well-valid reason
The PROBLEM that has risen up is, that “argument” turned the topic into a “personal beef in a public space” type of display. If you guys (both of you this time) have such urge to “win an argument” or convince the other in something they themselves don’t necessarily believe then maybe try PM one another
On a serious note though, usually battles of type “1 vs everyone” won’t do. Not because of the contents of the discussion/argument itself, but rather cause it re-emphasizes the perception of you yourself perceiving (and portraying) as a “victim”, and that can irritate people tbh
As for my personal views, I guess you didn’t even bother to read what my stance/s are. For a reference, here’s one:
There, CLEAR and Concise, summarized in bullet-points, a pure example of “on topic” response. Well, might as well ignore it now cause I painted it as a “template” to be followed (somewhat)
The forum doesn’t have PM function, at least I don’t aware it has, and I have no interest to add a random stranger in my skype or anything online communication available. Settle here is the only choice for both of us. If this bothering you THAT much, you can always report both of us’ posts for being off-topic and let the moderator handle this.