Definately man, I made a build for bombardment using pig sticker its probably one of the most fun builds I have played. Literally raining fire down on the battlefield and 100% crit makes the build very interesting. I literally have tested and tried 100’s of different setups in the last 2 seasons virutally everything you can think of and there are lot of builds that could create interesting play dynamics if they had accompanying items. I still want to play fires of heaven blockgun though its probably the best thing I have played since release of ROS.
I think i remember seeing a clear of 132 on condemn before the set re-balance, problem is that I cant see it since it was NS eu which doesn’t list seasons in the same way. That said, it’s safe to push akkhan into the 4000% area, but past that it may end up to strong, I’m aiming for 140 as the max.
Definately Rashiel, I’m not arguing with you on that but all i’m saying is in order to give people build diversity the easiest place to buff is Akkhan and it would need to be 8-12k to get strong build diversity in it. If they have to nerf prophecy and fryders to the ground thats fine, maybe change the affix to something more interesting instead of damage modifier.
Well,why dont they buff the other legendaries then,after they buffed akkhan to 4k, condemn is not too strong multiplier wise, the others are just far too weak.
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It would be easier in my opinion to work the buffs and nerfs through one set modification, instead of weapons & shields on potentially 10 different build setups, Just my opinion though. The only problem build is Condemn where modifications would need to be made to its build items, which is far better then every weapon and shield for crusaders various builds.
Yes but those FR 800% / BoP 800% modifiers are etched in stone because of LoD. They’d have to introduce some completely new item that can only be fit into LoD, but not Akkhan.
Totally agree and I think the fix would be a belt or bracer more then likely therefore making the player choose between CC/Aughilds or belt/bracer combination. I think Lacuni Prowlers or Warzaechian could be the bracer due for a reroll and could be the item they choose. As for what they do at blizz, honestly crusader has no buid diversity and no 4P playable build really unless your well geared and find a group who wants to take that on. But for the average player you are not going far on Crusader in group play which I think is a problem.
They would be able to buff the other builds if they normalize supporting weapons /shields for other builds Akkhan uses. Or, nerf BOP/FW and raise the set bonus.
The nerfs to Gryfalcons Foot/Jeck haven’t come up in this thread, those nerfs were the only reason Akkhan Condemn was as dominant as it was for so long. This is why nerfing isn’t the best option in this game, it usually creates more problems than it solves.
In point of fact I can’t think of a time when a nerf (lets be clear by nerf I do not mean bug fix) actually did not create more issues for a class than it solved.
That being said, none of these fixes address the horrid single target damage both builds suffer from. It’s weird being 4-5 min away from the GR timer running out and still bailing on the rift b/c you know you’re not going to be able to kill RG.
Very well said. GF/Jeck nerfs were only supposed to lower the Akkhan BS build by 2-3 GR’s, in reality it was way more than that. Same as the adding the stack cap on the cube weapon for Seeker (can’t remember the name off the top of my head).
Bottom line, if it wasn’t for badly implemented nerfs/power distribution in supporting items Crusaders would have more options than we have now. In reality we have two push builds, Invoker/LOD(LON) BS. Both destroy any Condemn build.
Valid points Jay, I think the common question is that we want to play the other builds but how do we do this with the easiest approach? Buffing Akkhan’s 6 set answers that question and of course there is going to be adverse effects and certain items will need to change but come on instead of cycling massive buffs to force people to play a specific spec why not fix everything in one shot and let the players decide. There is of course going to be min-maxed specs but who cares if your not farming 3.5k plus paragon your going to struggle to get into top 10 anyways without a huge luck factor. I played thorns this season because I refused to play blessed shield again, Its a boring play style with next to no appeal for me personally as a long time Crusader player. I have played in the top 10 for MANY seasons and its just not important to me anymore, I just want to perform to the highest potential possible and be close at least.
The game shouldn’t be balanced around ridiculous paragon levels (aka botters).
In other words, wgaf.
I think it is pretty safe to balance Akkhan 6pc around 6300 paragon, the set mixes well with CC3 and offers lower paragon players good defense. So any increase in set damage will result in higher clears for everyone. Why did you say WGAF?
Buffing akkhan will end with condemn being way to strong…
When you consider akkhan set multipliers you have to count with :
Base akkhan 1500%
Captain Crimson (with 54 CDR) = 54%
Aughilds 30% elite 30% general damage
Focus + Restraint 50% x 2
Condemn weapon/shield 800% x 2
People saying that LON condemn is not broken with almost 10k is not considering that LON is not able to use focus+restraint/aughilds/captain… With all these sets in equiped the 1500% from akkhan is not that weak as you think.
Akkhan is pretty much the condemn set since they overbuffed the condemn weapons, and considering that condemn is not broken or weak they should leave akkhan set alone.
So you’re counting the multipliers, but not counting the effective clears that the build has done. Akkhan condemn is far behind the top builds since it hasn’t recieved much boost since the 800+800 buff, it’s not too strong atm.
LoD: 98.5 * 1.6 (element) * 1.5 (CoE) = 236.4x
Akkhan: 16 * 2.25 (f&r) * 1.56 (cc3) * 1.3 (aughild) * 1.4 (element) = 102.2x and
A6 w/ Aughild and CC3 it’s 20% stronger vs elites due to already having furnace in cube, so treat that as 123x vs elites.
That’s definitely like a 5GR power difference. One thing i forgot to mention, both of these builds now get Flavor of Time.
Legacy of dreams loses 1 legendary gem in order to equip rings, you have to consider that in the numbers too.
dmkt’s math is sound and cant be argued there is a ton of room for akkhan’s to grow and keep condemn balanced. We have already outlined the places to do the balancing so its a mute argument at this point, the set needs a ton more love to be competitive. With a additional buff we see love to multiple specs that can be playable, condemn is the only spec that needs to be watched. I truly don’t understand why there is such a strong argument against getting a strong set to potentially see 4p activity with.
This is true, now that esoteric is no longer a requirement. BoTP is partial up time in push, I have calculated as full duration, even though it really isn’t.
Re-math is needed:
LoD: 98.5 * 1.6 (element) * 1.5 (CoE) = 236.4x
Akkhan: 16 * 2.25 (f&r) * 1.56 (cc3) * 1.3 (aughild) * 1.4 (element) * 1.2 (BotP) = 122.7x
A6 w/ Aughild and CC3 it’s 18% stronger vs elites due to already having furnace in cube
Balanced around Condemn, this means 3000% would be appropriate for Akkhan.
Damn i shoulda listened! Time to return back to the theorycraft post list and update. It should be easy to just increase the AoV 2pc number, while lowering the 6pc again. The build that’d most benefits most is Roland Sweeper, which is a good thing.
Everyone that has tried LON condemn knows that the build it’s pretty weak because you don’t have 100% akarat champion uptime, and the massive wrath costs makes the build really bad, buffing akkhan will only buff condemn some GR levels meanwhile any other build will still be weak.
So at the end buffing akkhan will lead into more free powercreep, unless you nerf condemn items to balance for adding free power.
Did you miss the whole part above when we said that you can buff akkhan AND other legendaries to improve less powerful builds. Buffing akkhan will most likely buff blessed shield aswell meaning you’d have a “better” BS build for pushing.
Both those builds have massive multipliers, but other builds are stilll so far away that even if you nerf condemn and buff akkhan, it will not be enough for those builds.
The better option is to buff akkhan a moderate amount, then buff builds like phalanx and possibly heaven’s fury to a decent level (I would have said fist of heaven’s before, but now it got its own set).
It will not make it op, it will just make it balanced around the top builds.
I could add my own thoughts on all the other sets/legendaries that could use a buff, but at this moment we’re just focused on the akkhan set.
Buffing Akkhan will solve nothing, heaven fury or phalanx will still be weak compared to condemn, buffing akkhan makes no difference.
The problem with heaven fury or phalanx are the weak legendaries, phalanx helm damage buff is a joke (60% more damage…), shield with like 60% aditive phalanx damage… and the ring without damage… when you compare these items with condemn ones that are 800% you notice that the problem is not akkhan, the problem is the items for every single other crusader skill that has no main set is lackluster.
If somehow you add 400% phalanx damage on shield and 300% on ring and helm phalanx will not be that weak as it is nowadays.
If you buff the legendary items that heaven fury or phalanx use to decent levels you don’t have to touch akkhan (which means no more free powercreep for condemn).
BTW i don’t get why we are talking about akkhan set tbh, considering that there is no change to akkhan in this ptr patch, and we should be talking about the new set that need some damage/mitigation buffs.