So… your argument is basically that you have a problem with small steps, but you’d be just fine with a big one?
Which don’t matter if you can’t take advantage of them. Nvidia does this occasionally - there was some touted effect that was specific to the 900 series.
I have a problem calling something that isn’t new as pioneering, and using that to excuse a developer ripping features out of a game while bringing nothing new to the table.
This isn’t about big or little steps. This is about Blizzard taking features away from the game without giving us any added value for it.
Which I rather suspect this isn’t steps building to something anyway. They were able to make huge steps in 2004 with World of Warcraft and took this idea much farther than they’re planning with even DIablo 4.
If Blizzard wanted to do something worthwhile with the online requirement, they’d just do it. They wouldn’t need half a dozen games to slowly introduce it.
Nvidia is also trying to do things like better performance, new features, etc. without taking away from what was there before.
If they announce the 3000 series cards and they offer less than the 2000 series cards then yeah, I’m gonna have a problem with that.
I’m not going to fault a company for trying something new but if your new direction requires removing what previous iterations of your products offered, I need to see the value in losing that.
I see value in the online requirement in World of Warcraft. That game would simply not work in an offline mode without considerable changes to the game.
I don’t see it in Diablo. Especially when Blizzard is very quick to assure us how we’ll be able to play Diablo 4 completely without grouping and how we can already do that in Diablo 3.
So then foundations are all made equal huh. Well then I guess the foundation for a one bedroom (full bath) house is identical to the ones used for both a Church and the White House. After all they are limited right. Besides I was using foundations to show the importance of cores. Since a foundation is the most important part (core) of the house. Because without it the house has nothing to support it and would likely collapse in time.
Games with both offline and online will have bleed overs from the offline side.
Offline mode could expose workarounds that wouldn’t be easily detected without it.
But that is meaningless if you are doing it to get on the ladder in D2. But someone has already placed where you wanted to place. There is no way you can knock him off in D2’s ladder system. Unless it is not based on who is the first ones to reach level 99. If a person has already reached rank one in D2’s ladder and it isn’t based on how long it took him/her to reach level 99. If it is a first come first serve sort of deal Then there would be no way that the person who done it by cheating would be able to knock that number one rank off of the boards. Even if they done it in seconds.
Silly me an economists knows that only 0.0000001% of the game is actually controlled by the core of the program. After all it really isn’t that important at all right. Now do you see what I am saying. The core of the program will control everything in the game. It doesn’t matter how many features are there. They will still be controlled by the core. Otherwise it is the features that controls all things in the game. The core would be just window dressing at best. Instead of the most important part of the program.
There is also the possibility that the hackers are just that much better than the mod maker. That they found weaknesses that they didn’t know about. That is what concerns me. Selling Blizz the idea that they would be able to make a truly unsinkable Titanic separation of the two might be a formula that leads to disaster. And it wouldn’t take much of a mistake for good hackers to capitalize on it.
You like others want to underestimate the skills of hackers. Thinking that their skills haven’t grown any. Well you are wrong if you think that. that is why it is a cat and mouse game that companies fight hackers. Gaming companies improve their security and methods. Then hackers improve on their end.
When I see players being able to do things that shouldn’t be possible. That concerns me, that means that the skills of the hackers are really good, not to be underestimated. Even though you and others want to make them to appear like they are 2 year old children as far as the level of their skills.
So says the economist.
Why would you listen and accept it. That would go against your confirmation bias of what you believe to be true.
Okay then if I were making a mod for Skyrim and it didn’t perform as expected then it is Bethesda’s fault right. Then if something is not working for Skyrim then they can claim it is my fault, even though it would have nothing to do with the mod that I made.
See what I am saying here. I am saying that if you are gonna make a mod tool that is suppose to do x, y, and z then if it doesn’t do those things then it is the fault of the one making the tool instead of the gaming company.
Trouble of it is this particular case it could be true.
There have to be some hard fast rules concerning programming. Because if there are no such rules then it is chaos.
Then why does the console version have jump and we don’t along with a few other differences. Besides what was Josh doing, according to what you said that means he didn’t have to do any design work at all. Just copy the game and paste it for console and he was done. Heck by that token they should’ve been able to ship within a few days.
I wouldn’t be too certain about that.
Offline mode could make it easier to spot the mistake.
You are making a mod tool for a game. Now if you think about it hard enough you should know how to be able to disable mods for the online portion. All because the you would know about the P2P. That knowledge means you would design your tool to work with that in mind.
Again you like Shadout want to underestimate the skills of hackers. Making them to be the level of a 2 year old child.
Are you really that certain that players didn’t combat that problem by forming PvP groups with a close circle of friends. Logically that would be what those on the D2 forums would tell players that post about their problems with PvP cheaters.
Maybe you’re right. Without open bnet it may have made a difference. That is unless there are some other secret ways of still be able to get hacked gear or even modded gear to the online portion.
But my initial investigation says that part is only true if you never leave the game. If you leave the game then you can no longer take that character online.
Risking your own account just to make things easier on you is not worth it.
I am talking about pure logic here. It isn’t worth risking your account by cheating even without competition in D2. If it were PvP then players would probably tell you to make private games where you only would allow close friends to play with you in PvP. If this is indeed the case then you have effectively removed the cheaters from the legit players. Then in the non PvP it isn’t worth losing your account just to cheat.
You could be wrong in that area.
Yes it is part of the underlying design. What does it have to be so much a part that you cannot do a single thing solo in D3. Well if you went by that metric the same is true for WoW. I have no doubt that I could go from level one to cap all without ever teaming once.
I am certain that there could be other ways other than using a character to cause modded gear to appear in D3 if offline mode existed.
Their top CEO making an insane amount of money has nothing to do with how D4 or D3 is designed.
it does actually, if it isnt maximizing profit they will not use the design no matter how interesting it is. This isnt about making you happy, this is about them making money.
It has nothing to do with designing it with P2P in mind or “underestimating” the skills of hackers.
P2P is basically handing all the keys to every lock you put in place into the hands of the thieves. They don’t have to be master lockpickers at that point, because you just handed them everything they need to bypass your locks.
What you’re not getting is that P2P is inherently insecure for anti-cheat measures.
If they did it didn’t have an impact on the PvP community at large because there was always tons of open dueling games in Diablo 2.
People didn’t really complain about the modded items. Things like white rings just became another item that people had.
If there was nobody ever found it, which makes it effectively as good as it not being there. Even the guys that did the original modded item exploit didn’t find anything new after Blizzard closed the open bnet loophole.
Which I know was specifically an open bnet thing because it exploited a flaw in the game’s server connection code. Something that offline mode doesn’t use because it doesn’t have servers.
To you it doesn’t, but not everybody thinks like you do.
How else do you explain the hackers that existed not only on Diablo 2, but on non-ladder on Diablo 2?
Hell I map hacked back in the day despite not gaining any competitive advantage from it since I didn’t play on ladder.
People aren’t going to not do something just because ShadowAegis said it wasn’t logical on the Diablo 3 forums.
I couldn’t be. You might as well try to tell somebody in the army that their pistol might not be called a firearm. They’d look at you like you were insane.
Client and server have very specific definitions in software.
It’s not part of the underlying design when I can do everything in the game without grouping. Even in Diablo 4 Blizzard has assured us we can do this.
Good luck running current dungeons and raids without ever teaming once in WoW. There’s more to that game than simply hitting level cap.
Lets repeat the obvious one more time. Software is not a house.
No. That does not have to happen.
No no no no no.
Technically, any part of a program could be essential. If a bug occurs the whole thing might crash.
If they do it in the first second of the new ladder season, they would end up first. Afaik, that does not happen, for some inexplicably reason. I wonder if the reason is that you cant actually do it.
Nobody is saying Blizzard can make an unsinkable game.
Only that the games security will be the exact same with and without offline mode. That doesn’t mean the online servers will be free of cheating of course. Blizzard has shown they can do a reasonably good job however (if we ignore the local client cheats like bots and THUD of course). So there is no reason to believe they wouldn’t do the same good job if the game had an offline mode.
Yeah. That mod maker is still not the game company. Just a random mod maker claiming they did something they did not do.
It doesn’t mean that. It was not impossible. The mod maker was just an amateur making a false claim, which they shouldn’t have done. If that mod maker had not made their mod, someone else would have managed to cheat on GTA anyway. Since the problem here was Rockstar using P2P instead of their own servers for online security.
Correction. Of what I know to be true.
What the actual…
No, if you make a mod that allows you to hack Skyrims servers (which they do not have) against the wishes of the developer, then yeah, Bethesda did a bad job.
The mod maker is “guilty” of breaching the EULA probably, but Bethesda is “guilty” of failing to protect their own game.
It is not the responsibility of some random mod maker to protect a games integrity and online servers. That is solely on the game developers.
I highlighted the important part of that sentence for you.
Maybe programming is chaos? 
I mean, there are obvious rules; in the sense that you are coding within a language, and that language is made of rules and restrictions of what you can do.
But you can essentially always go back and rewrite your code. No matter how immensely difficult it might be.
Because they added it to the game.
Yes, the vast, vast, majority of the game is the same.
I thought you claimed cheaters were really smart?
Oh, you did claim that.
But that is the whole freaking point. You cant “disable” anything for P2P. Because the people running the game on their client is in full control.
If the mod disables anything, someone else can just enable it again.
Actually, this goes back to the previous comment that nothing in software is ever set in stone. It can be altered again.
A game without any fun in it will bring back no sales. Besides a CEO’s salary could be anything that could be possibly thought of. But still that wouldn’t change how the company is ran. Whether Kotick is paid hundreds of millions of dollars or in the tens of millions. All of the games will still be made the same. As long as he is increasing shareholder value it don’t matter how those games are designed.
As long as they pull in the profits, and they can’t do that without being a fun to play.
Did Kotick lose money because of D3 being such a flop? I highly doubt it, he still make insane amount of money even though D3 was a flop as far as the way that the suits ooked at it.
I bet that if I knew how to code I could make a mod making tool that would be able to block mods from affecting the online portion of the game.
I disagree there could be things that if done right would make it harder to cheat for even them.
That is probably because the majority of those PvP’ing cheated as well.
Don’t underestimate what hackers are capable of. They will find ways of getting chose cheats to work in the online version.
So you say it is worth risking your account to cheat.
Okay then I guess there are 50 billion reasons to cheat right, including non existent things are still a reason. Now see what I am saying. Without competition it just doesn’t make any sense to cheat. You are not gonna get any benefits from it.
To prove it I will use someone that I know of that did cheat in a game called Neverwinter Nights PC before Neverwinter Online. There was a trilogy game set. There was something similar to console commands that gave your character all kinds of benefits.
Then when this person tried to play legit that person couldn’t play the game without the cheats. That person kept getting their character killed right and left by things that I kept beating with ease.
This is what I am talking about, I thought that a person like you should know that. The old phrase cheaters never win.
Your right, how silly I am, there is no core in software. That is what I say from now on. Or if there is one it is all based on chaos. The core doesn’t determine the rules that the rest of the program must follow. Oh and the words client and server never are used at all in programming.
In reality they are not even called client and server outside of a program.
Even if they do exist and are called those things, then you are the one that sets the definition right.
Oh look I found an interesting link.
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/server-side-client-side-programming/
You will have to be the one to educate them on the fact that server side and client side programming don’t exist.
Good luck trying to tackle world bosses and world events without a group. Sure you won’t have to actually form four player teams. But still you will need more than one player to handle it.
Plus in WoW there are ways to do some dungeons and raids solo. Sure it would be low level stuff but it is still doable.
So a core of a program is not like a foundation. Something to build on right. I guess it is just a bunch of chaotic mess that somehow gets works like the programmers designed it to right. Which is also saying that the core is not very important at all.
It does happen because you cannot achieve perfect separation.
Core is the most essential part of something, in this case program. So without the core the program won’t work. Kind of like building a building on the sand, which would be building on the surface, which won’t last.
I am talking about after someone hits rank one. If you took a necro and got to level 99 before anyone else without cheating. Maybe even with the help of a team.
Then that player that could cheat to 99 in a few seconds won’t knock you off of your number one rank regardless of how many times he tries. Because it is a first come first serve basis.
I think the reason that it doesn’t happen is because it is easily spotted. Also there is no reason to bother due to the fact that it is based on first come first serve as far as ranking on the ladder in D2. Now if it was based entirely on how long it took or some other metric then maybe you would see it happen.
You like others underestimate the skills and tools of hackers. They would find a way to do it due to the bleed over from offline that would affect online.
I do believe that they designed it in the way that they felt would do the job, even though it failed miserably. Which I say is because of the skill of hackers. That is unless the devs of that tool made some stupid mistake. Similar to how Rift Online had that problem with the game saving game tokens for a long time. Then hackers using those game tokens to hack into players accounts without passwords or account name.
Why haven’t I seen any other article stating that since P2P is so bad for security?
I think I will make it simple. Take Median XL mod for D2. Now if certain parts of that mod doesn’t work at all. Then you would say it is Blizz’s fault that those parts don’t work. When that mod has nothing to do with hacking Blizz’s servers or anything like that. That mod cannot be played on the closed bnet.
If consoles are a copy and paste of D3. Then answer me what was Josh doing as lead dev of console. He wouldn’t be needed. Heck the whole dev team wouldn’t be needed if it is just a copy and paste.
That is what offline mode can do make it easier to see the mistakes. Much like how PvP can help make things obvious in PvE. Monsters are not gonna complain. Something that is a bit OP but not very obvious can be seen in PvP.
Okay then I guess I can play both Median XL Sigma and D2 at the same time on the same computer all with the same character right.
No you really would not. Your mod might initially block it, but someone could just mod your mod.
In a P2P scenario that is.
That is not what anyone have said. People cheat because they can, not only because they win.
It does not have to make sense. People are stupid. Cheaters even more so.
Indeed.
Now remember it.
Dear lord. Strawman alert.
Nobody said those things do not exist. You are just misusing them.
Perfection is not needed.
Just need the same security with and without offline mode.
Then your claim is proven false.
Exactly!
This not affected by an offline mode.
Which bleed over?
Google it. Seriously everyone knows P2P has no useful online security. It is basically the same as offline.
Nonsense strawman. Nobody is saying that.
New UI and control scheme, making it run in the console OS environment, play testing etc.
It is not nothing, but it is also far from a new game.
Of course.
Median XL is a modded D2 so it is literally what you are already doing.
You could block mods but it would be bypassed rather quickly.
It’s rather funny how you insist that offline mode would lead to cheating because the hackers are so clever and will find a way, but the thing that runs entirely on the player’s computer including the server could just be made to “be more secure”.
Maybe they should add an offline mode and “do it right” to make it harder to cheat for even them.
So first it was that the PvPers would kick out the cheaters, now it’s that the PvPers just are a bunch of cheaters.
Or you could just admit that since you didn’t play online much, you know nothing about how the PvP community actually worked and are literally just guessing right now.
You’re trying to tell an avid PvPer back in the day how PvP back in the day worked.
Except they didn’t after Blizzard closed the open bnet loophole. It’s been over a decade and there has been nothing.
I’m saying that people don’t shy away from cheating just because you think it’s not logical or smart.
Or maybe it’s the opposite and every game ever should be always online.
Or better yet, every game ever should be Stadia exclusive since that moves almost everything to the server.
We should also remove all competitive aspects of every game so that nobody will ever have a reason to cheat.
Every game should be a streamed game that has zero competitive aspects to it so we can all hold hands and sing about how we defeated piracy and cheating.
We don’t know the specifics of Diablo 4 but Blizzard themselves has assured us we can play the game solo. You’re free to argue against the developers of the game if you’d like, though.
There’s a reason I said “current dungeons and raids”. Best of luck to you in soloing Ny’alotha before Shadowlands comes out, but you’ll understand if I don’t think you’ll manage to do it.
I know you’re being sarcastic right now but man, if you’d only seen some of the stuff I’ve seen.
“A chaotic mess that somehow works” is exactly how I’d describe a few pieces of software I’ve seen.
This includes the source code for AAA titles like Mass Effect 3, which I’ve worked on mods for.
Is there any way I can delete/ignore certain posts/topics like this?
The impression I get sometimes is that while software might (unfortunately?) not be a core/house/whatever weird analogy, it can be a patchwork, of things stitched together because “we need to add something that can fix this other issue we created”. Or ‘our boss want us to add this new feature. The software was not at all designed to do it, so we just throw it on top of everything and hope for the best’.
Maybe this is a better analogy for software coding
https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/7F80/production/_107804623_ab870769-90ca-4ca3-a0dd-142031f9f262.gif
the game is NOT bad, is in a bad state, shape, but that doesnt mean is bad, it has potential to be funny (not a great game), look diablo3 like a hobbo (homeless), or a dog who has being betrayed and forsaken by his owner (blizz) that dog is dirty, skinny, with heartworms and diseases, this is diablo3, has been forgotten and set aside by blizzard, but underneath all these defects there is a good product to enjoy, this game just need work
lol modding will never end, in fact in a free world modding should be the future
Queue dead horse.
I don’t understand how people can want so much for free? This game is how old? When was the last time Blizzard made money on it? To be honest, I am shocked they still provide new content at all.
not quite. at the beginning, d3 was unplayable. do you remember the nonsense with 1 hit = instant death?
at the beginning there was almost no content. expansion is just a wd reskinn. so not worth talking about. there were almost no real updates here. a dev full time can bring out multiple sets, lots of items and many innovations easy in just one month! and what has been there for 7-8 years? ridiculous picture for a season after 3-4 months ???
the dev tries to feed the rest of the players with breadcrumbs so that they don’t run away completely. after all, d4 is to be sold …
And if you come with the nonsense like servers are expensive: there is a very good solution for solo play.
warframe shows how to do it correctly. there no own server and hardly any cheaters. yes, read correctly! There are almost no cheaters or hacked items! I have no lag when I play alone.
but this company never gets it right. there are apparently only designers there now. and very bad apparently.
I just feel that companies are more protective of their ip and control of it than ever.
You can always use the good old manual ignore, and don’t click them.
Not quite. I would like to hide certain topics so I don’t have to look at them.
its like people dont understand why full online feature was even introduced in the first place.
you think servers are freaking free? they cost money, cost significant amount of money to maintain them as well. They do it because piracy is always a problem on PC games, they simply cant afford to have a full offline mode, not to mention all the headaches they will have to deal with, all the hacked items, duped items, everything is a lot easier to hack offline.
asking for a full offline mode in 2020 is a joke
Well I can’t help you there then.
There is however a way to ignore people I am told.
Search around the forum and I am sure you will find it being explained somewhere.
I guess you could just ignore certain posters that you feel write “bad” topics.