You guys should also know that Blizzard isn’t going to make changes like that as well. So why even bother asking for them?
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I appreciate the creativity, but this is idea has several problems.
- Is this damage buff active only when Wrath is active? Not all Barb builds can achieve perma-Wrath. Those that can’t would be forced to stack 50% CDR. Some damage rolls will be compromised, and so will the total DPS buff. If the buff is active provided the bracer is worn or Cubed, well, now you made one item best in slot for every build.
- Not all Barb builds can achieve perma-IP. See above. What even stacks in this? That doesn’t make sense.
Neither of these two items are well designed. As this and the last two patches have shown, redesigning skills is far, far less likely than buffing items. Your ideas require two skills on the bar, and the builds that need the most love (IK HOTA, LON, and EQ builds) won’t benefit much from this.
It’s also important to note that different Barb builds require different amounts of buffs. See our proposal for more in-depth information on this.
I’m with Jako 100% when he says this:
There are other, better ways to approach fixing Barbs and Monks, and it all begins with supporting legendaries.
If you look at our proposal, you’ll see that List 1 only tweaks existing items. Bigger multipliers. Simple. Done. And it addresses them on a build-by-build basis. Even if we only ever get 2-3 of those, that’s better than a new global multiplier that further restricts item choice.
List 2, on the other hand, addresses the real problems with our builds, and introduces other, necessary mechanics: scaling damage multipliers, and so forth. It greatly increases potential build diversity and power. It’s what we truly need even if I doubt we’ll get much from that list.
After the backlash that came with Mortick’s this patch, I’m confident we’ll get buffs. I can’t speak for Monks since I’m not an expert on that class, but they definitely need them too!
11 Likes
I’ll take anything at this point. But I think its tad too much, or maybe needs to go somewhere else. Beacon is already pretty powerful, but I guess I see what you mean.
Most Monks use that passive as is, so why not make it go there. I know I can’t roll without it.
Monks could do with 200% more damage tbh. Yes, we are that far behind our Intelligence overlords, along with Barbs.
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Just out of curiosity. Micro, have you even read the Barb Proposal? If so, why do you keep trying to recreate the wheel?
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This is the most solid idea regarding Mortick’s I’ve seen yet.
Brings it up to speed with the current level of power creep, but keeps its theme. Not overly exciting, but surely not as boring as just slapping more damage on it. Could give it some great utility too. Only problem is, it will probably make it mandatory.
Numbers could be tweaked of course, but its a great place to start imo.
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Great point, Jay. I’m not an expert on Monks, so forgive me if this is a dumb question: How do Monk builds compare to one another?
For example, here’s the Top 5 Barb builds ranked.
How do Monk builds rank? What are some of the pros and cons of each? Your comment got me thinking that, as with Barbs, different Monk builds probably need different levels of buffs, right?
Looks like Gen Monk is numero uno.
A simple fix for that to be closer to Wizard is slapping a multiplier on Flying Dragon. It now doubles your damage and attack speed.
I’m curious about the other builds though. Bellwuko was my favorite back in the day.
Most definitely.
200% more damage for our strongest build. More for others.
Different builds, have different problems. This… is a huge discussion to be had… If we only had an advocate like you hehe. 
But lacking damage compared to the top classes is universal.
WoL based builds have been the go to for a while now, with SWK then Inna and now LoN.
Curious to see how next seasons new items shakes things up. But any advantage we get from them. Everyone gets anyway.
Honestly, I’d much prefer competitive diversity within the class. But one can dream for both.
I would urge you to become that advocate for Monks. Find other like-minded players with a deep understanding of the game and design, and start posting!
If I had more free time, it would already be done.
Unfortunately our collective is not as numerous these days but we do get some discussions going. Lots of stuff to hash out though, there are lots of well loved builds, most of us have a different favorite. I’ve personally got a TON of testing to do with the new stuff. PTR just didn’t cut it.
One day… We will stop rolling off the damage ranges from our weapons to be accepted into high (GR) society.
adding huge buffs to already widely used items or passives doesn’t fix anything. All that does is:
- bring the builds that use those items / passives on par, but leave everything that is not using them in the trash
- make those items / passives mandatory for all builds (even the ones that shouldn’t have them), reducing build diversity in the process
- create massive power disparities between the best build that uses those items normally, and the worst build that is running those items by force.
Free, you are right. There was a typo, I meant For barbarians:
- Morticks bracers receive a buff that increases damage 150%
- A new rune is introduced: “Ignore Pain - Mob Destruction” that buffs the user’s damage by 30%. The damage buff stacks up to 5 times for every enemy with 25 yards.
I edited the first post.
The other option is to ask for buffs to 6 piece set bonuses. As patch 2.6.4 demonstrated, they were willing to buff all barb sets. It does not adress the issue of wonky builds but other classes have the same problem such as wizards.
Also, I think the clock is ticking. Once, D4 is announced I think there will be very little introduced in terms of balance changes/item updates. I would encourage solutions that are the simplest to execute. Think about it, they could not even recolor a pair of wings or borrow one from China this patch. For barbs in Patch 2.6.5, they heard the advocates but ran out of time for changes. Here, we are 3 months later with the reintroduction of a single item Mortick’s bracer that has been widely criticized by the community.
I’m not sure that this is true. The current strategy for asking for barb buffs have yielded very little for this class over the past several years. Maybe it is time to think of different options/arguments.
Having a one-size fits all solution is impossible as illustrated by your suggestions, but lets not kid ourselves the sheer magnitude of changes suggested in both items and passive skills is over the top. The proposed changes are a dream wish list (even the so-called high priority changes.)
To illustrate this point, what is the maximum number of passive skills that have ever been buffed for a single class since RoS?
What classes currently have intra class parity relative to their 6 piece sets? I would suggest that you ask for what is reasonable.Given Blizzard’s track record, how confident are you that they would buff an underperforming barb set and not even get it to the power level of the current best set? By your own admission, they do not understand the class as evidenced by the reintroduction of Mortick’s bracers.
One of your arguments is that Blizzard has not done a “Real” update for barbs for years. A lazy fix is better than nothing.
Yes. It is exceptionally well done by free. However, I as pointed out to Free it is incredibly unrealistic. For passive alone, buffs were requested for nine different passives. No class has had nine passive buffed. It would be great if Blizzard would overhaul this game but does anyone honestly think that these dramatic changes would happen? I have also asked free about his “item” priority as List 1 and list 2 (which often has buffs to the same items) include 28 unique items? Does anyone really think that Blizzard would buff all of them? Do you trust the developers to buff ones whose synergism is important? When free gave his minimal list of buffs, it was largely focused on making whirlwind barbs better that he acknowledged was his as well as many othee barbs favorite build.
The current argument is that even the top build are trash. Global buffs bring everything up.
This already occurs. That is why it makes sense to stick these buffs are items the are already widely used. Making a “mandatory” item/skill more essential is an oxymoron.
This has a point but as these build are already underperforming…/
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The more things change…
That post feels like a flashback to 2014.
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They really do need to do some more damage output balancing between classes. Every season I play Barb, I know I’m focused on going zdps after I finish the season journey.
Would love them to finally make SS a competent damage dealer.
Also wish they’d make zdps for all classes viable in some way so that people can take on different roles in groups… the meta needs diversification.
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You are kidding, right?
Everyone who ever complains about necromancer says:
“The whole class relies around Land of the Dead. Please, fix”
Now you want to make the entire barbarian class rely on Wrath? Because, necro and DH are not limited enough as is, let’s limit everyone else…
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No this is bad. No other class CDR passive offers damage %. Its a matter of utility vs pure damage. 100% damage on a passive is too OP anyways. If you look at all class damage passives, its ranging between 10/15 - 40% whether additive or multiplicative. Changing the passive is easy, but it opens up new balancing problems that other classes starting to demand passive no reworks.
Monk has Determination as additive buff and Relentless assualt / Mythic Rhythm as multiplicative. RA is fine. MR needs an icon buff to info which mobs is properly buffed. EDIT: left Unity out as its kind of group skill.
Will have to look at each build/its actual multipliers/support legs to see which needs what.
On top of head:
- LTK scarbringer can remove its 5-7 target limit.
- Tempest rush can have another multiplier, one of fist weapon.
- WOL is fine ?
- Gen is fine if raiment has toughness buffs onto the set. Combination is additive damage (i think), something can be done here maybe.
- U6 needs MR reworked/icon display and toughness onto set.
Have to research on All servers and pull a record of each build/spec.
This is great, consider many transformation skills has multipliers tied to as base effect (vengeance, Akarat Champion etc)
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I can save you some time. I have already grabbed the data for the America top 10 solo greater rift leaderboard. The best monk build is several greater rifts below average.
~https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/season-17-solo-grift-top-10-data/1138/7~
Beacon of Ytar according to Diablo3ladder is one of the most common passive selected relative to any class (25% is the maximum and it is @23%). If it is “mandatory” already for monks, then it will remain mandatory. Nothing changes.
Since it would be an across the board DPS buff for a passive that already is used by 92% of high tier monks, how would it create a new problem that does not exist already?
Since this change would only bring up monks to average, I do not think that it well set off a firestorm of protests from other classes.
The problem with your suggestion is that you are asking for distinct buffs to multiple sets at once. If the goal is 6 piece set intra class parity, then use patch 2.6.5 as a guide and buff class set modifiers. This is far simpler than changing one or multiple items for each build.
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This proposed idea of yours is completely wack and would require a bit of effort that you so claim it wouldn’t. You are talking about introducing completely new runes and passives.
If you were a true barb enthusiast, you would have read and been aware of the proposal that was prepared by Free and others. Which would prove why this idea is completely wack.
At this point in the game i wouldn’t honestly expect and hope for anything more than simple number adjustments, which would do the job enough to somewhat satisfy.
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I did. It was well written. As you know if you read Free’/Rage’s website, it included requests to buff 9 barbarian passive skills, 28 unique items (including more than 10 with new legendary affixes), and the waste of the wrath set bonuses (4 and 6 piece bonuses). For monks, I propose a single change to 1 passive skill that is already used by the overwhelming majority of monks.
Barbs are more tricky. If there was a near “universal” barbarian passive, item, and/or skill that I would advocate dropping the damage modifier on that.
Alternatively for barbs and monk, Blizzard could treat it like patch 2.6.5 and tweak the 6 piece class set bonuses with the “right math.”
Edit. I want to remind everyone what the recommendations were for List 1 that was described as :“This list represents the bare-bones buffs needed to various items to achieve the desired parity between builds, and to increase build diversity for LoN and primary skill builds.” This includes buff to a a 6 piece set bonus as well number buffs to 10 items (Skull Grasp, Girdle of Giants, Fury of the Vanished Peak, Bastion’s Revered, Oathkeeper, Dishonored Legacy, Blade of the Warlord, Arreat’s Law, The Three Hundredth Spear, and Skular’s Salvation). I am not sure that any class has received buffs to 10 class specific items since the release of the necromancer.
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You dont play monk do you? Its common because WOL / zmk gears it. Not every monk dps build gears it. Particular one of strongest - Raiment Gen. If memory serves monk solo world record is R6 Gen. Another CDR passive usage rate is higher than BoY - that is wiz evocation.
You can not look at a website for data w/o insight of class.
The reason Free and the barb com comes up with such detailed report is because amongst them they have 100ks of hrs on Barb playing time.
EDIT: We appreciate your post and welcomes any open discussion. But unless you knows the class mechanics, please stick to your main class when requesting class tweaks. IE i will never stick my nose into WD stuff as I only have 200 hrs on it and deleted all my WD toons.
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