just so you know i have been using rend self cast and it got me on the whole new lvl. so i can almost certainly say its not option number 1.
its either 2 or 3rd option because its pretty noticable when i self cast rend in pack of mobs. i do it every two seconds untill there is just elite left. have been doing two self cast then spin then two self cast and so on.
and crusader will be strong, no barb. oh wait crusader allready have been strong since its release, oups. blizz screwed up again
That’s exactly how I envision using AD with Rend. And then take out Elite with Lacerate Ambo Rend.
First off, thank you for all of this information. I would like to ask something about the mechanics of the Rend Rune: Bloodbath. I remember reading somewhere (although I cannot remember when or where, so it may be outdated information) that Bloodbath applies an unmodified bleed. Will all of the bonuses from Waste set now apply to the Bloodbath bleed? I understand that the 6-piece bonus most likely does apply, but the 2 and 4-piece bonuses seem unclear to me. Also, as far as Ambo’s Pride goes, will it also cause Bloodbath to do all of its damage over 1 second? Thank you for taking the time to read my questions.
Rend: Bloodbath triggers another Rend on the mob which will be affected by all the buffs. Lamentation will cap Rend instances (dots) at 2 whether or not they are from WW/rend, Bloodbath rend or manually cast rend. Ambo’s Pride will front load all Rend instances damage in 1 second.
I was thinking about this rune and how it effective it is. First, its range is 10 yards. Second WW dust devil (WW6) has high enough APS to cast 2 Rends when it hits a mob. For this rune to be useful, the on-death explosion caused by WW/rend needs to trigger the rend on a mob that is unaffected by WW/rend in the first place all within a 10 yard radius. Of course we need to take into consideration if the Bloodbath rend is triggered after Ambo’s front loaded the earlier Rend instances on the new mob. How it effective is really works in practice I don’t think we’ve tested.
Quilt, I believe the “Bloodbath Rend” from a dying enemy can stack on top of the regular Rend, one for each Rend instance. That’s what Svr meant when he said:
Ok just to clarify sVr tested up to 4 stacks of Rend (two by manual Rend or WW/Rend and two more by two mobs dying within 10 yards of the targeted mob), all affected by the full Rend modifiers?
Yes, that’s my reading of the situation. Haven’t personally verified it, but it seems very likely.
hey first of all i should say that my english is not the best, especially when it comes to technical terms.
i am currently playing rend barb in season 22 and i have found ambos and doom in primal with very good rolls; i was wondering if it makes a difference if ambos is equipped in the mainhand or in the offhand.
I am aware that rend is most effective when I cast it manually.
First, you really shouldn’t necro-bump threads from a year ago.
Second, this information is covered in the stickied Zodiac Rend guide.
Thirdly, the reason Ambo’s goes in the main hand is to benefit from
To answer both your questions. In any push situation you want the weapon with higher damage in the main hand. Rend is calculation from weapon damage. Also when you are using either istvans or any combo of ambos/doom or etc… we use the wind shear rune on ww which gives us our fury regen. There are better passives then weapon master to use. If you did decide to use weapon master you would actually want a non mighty weapon in the main hand so that you would attain a damage buff.
Even though the guide says this?
Correct. Why would istvans or ambos/doom combo be any different? They have the exact same fury regen without weapon master. Players get into fury issues in pushes when they are playing empty maps or not creating density. In this case you want to just RIP the rift and start over unless you are way ahead of time. Just skip it and go straight to another map. You can try testing crimson/ambos/doom. Then drop ploughshare for into the fray then use bloodfunnel on ww. Then weapon master is needed. This build would have more healing and more damage in density then FnR. You would need weapon master and ambos in main hand for this set up. With crimson resource reduction and stomp for BOM should work fine.
Free build’s his guides for the average player. More experienced players can deviate from the guide and benefit if they are willing to deal with the side effects. Just one example is the guide says 800k-1000k health. I run 530k with zero points in paragon vit and am very very tanky. This is because I’m 6k and can deviate from the guide. There are many versions that can be viable depending on if its season or 10k paragon or 20k paragon. No one on the planet knows what WW will feel like when the Chinese players finally hit 20k. Rest assured it won’t look like Free’s guide.
I was thinking about this last night. There is a difference when you run istvans or ambos/doom but it is not with the weapons. The reason you take weapon master is because you don’t want to run wind shear but blood funnel instead. In a crimson/ambos/doom combo weapon master plus the resource bonus of crimson is apparently enough. On top of this in season we don’t need to use IP since BOM is used. We would also switch ploughshare to into the fray. This build might actually have a higher potential then FnR. I don’t have a decent ambos or doom to test it though. Sitting on perfect area damage will make any other build not worth it unless the I get ambos/ doom perfect as well. I may test it just to check on the resource management. Stomp can be run in season to help as well.
I think it works great in density, but I remember some folks having an issue with keeping their Fury up vs single targets.
A few other things to keep in mind:
Ambo can’t really roll ideal stats, since it always has STR and Bleed. Best you can do would be STR + 2/3 from AD, CDR, DMG%.
Swapping Brawler for WM costs you about 8% damage, assuming you’ve otherwise got max dibs in all the usual places.
Since you also spin slower due to Ambo’s being a MW rather than a sword, and don’t have the +30% AS from IB, it might be a bit tough to keep up Wrath without Boon. Not sure about this one.
I know I’ve mentioned this before, but the benefit of Furnace is somewhat reduced by the way AD works.
So, all that said, let’s look at the damage numbers…
In the other thread we figured F&R + MoC ended up with a 2.81x multiplier (when comparing to Crimson + CoE). Since we’re also factoring in IB vs Ambo/Doom, we need to add in another 1.3x, for the IB damage bonus, and a 1.08x for Brawler. That brings us to 3.94x for F&R + MoC.
The Ambo/Doom setup would be 1.56 (Crimson… I am assuming AD + DMG% on Ambo, rather than CDR…) * 1.5 (CoE) * 1.143 (Doombringer) = 2.67. You also pick up a little bit of damage from the STR on Ambo and the fact that as a MW it has a slightly higher base weapon damage than a sword… Let’s just call it 2.85x or something like that.
We also have to assess the contributions of BR:ITF,which is a bit complicated. In really high density, ITF can add 30+% extra damage, though usually you will probably see more like 15%. So that’s somewhere between 3.28x and 3.70x, which is still not as good as the 3.94x for F&R + MoC.
Finally, there’s Furnace. In density, this is really only going to make a big difference when you have a lot of elites mixed in with trash. It’ll certainly help against the RG, though not as much as you might hope, since Stricken somewhat diminishes the value (with Furnace, you will kill the RG in something like 21% less time). But, you’ll also stack Stricken slower, compared to IB, so, comparatively speaking, you lose even more of this value.
Looking at this, I guess I would not recommend this setup, unless, say, you had a terrible IB set, but a primal Ambo/Doom. There might be some rare instances when it would match the F&R + MoC setup, but I would be surprised if it ever exceeded it, and I do think it will be a bit more finicky to play.
I knew we kept you around for some reason. Just saved me a few hours.
Anytime there’s not optimal density, Fury drain becomes a major issue. WW burns Fury, Spear burns Fury, hard-cast Rends burn Fury, and whenever you Stun from Stomp and stop taking damage, you burn Fury. Against certain RGs, Fury generation is terrible, and only RGs like Hammy consistently cover the cost of spinning and Rending.
On paper, the Ambo’s + Doom setup offers the most DPS, but only in the most optimal conditions, and even then, you’re giving up a lot of QoL just for some extra elite damage that is, as Rage points out, offset by Stricken and complicated by density and AD.
In other words, going for Ambo’s + Doom is really only worthwhile if they happen to drop with optimal rolls and you can’t get a good IB set.
So what is the bottom line?
Hard cast Rend: Yes or No?
Area Damage: Yes or No?
Crit Hit Chance: Yes or No?
Crit Hit Damage: Yes or No?
2Hander: Yes or No?
In order:
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
thank you sir. you are a scholar and a gentleman.