That doesn’t really have any effect for the purposes of Lies. There’s a very slight change in the value of Lies based on how many pets you have and the rate they attack at, but it’s actually the opposite of what you are assuming here. And the effect is pretty much negligible.
Also, for the purposes of Lies each hydra counts as 5 different attacks (one for each head), so 10 total. You gain a Lies stack for each head that hits, not for each hydra that hits. You’ll see you gain Lies stacks in chunks of 5 oe 10. Sometimes it’ll shift a bit if the hydra heads get a bit out of sync, but if you put down two fresh hydras you should see you gain Lies stacks in chunks of 10.
The stacks fall off steadily over a period of 5 seconds (and you cannot gain more stacks during this interval, they always fall at the same rate), then there is a 1 second cooldown with 0 stacks before you start gaining stacks again.
The base Lies multiplier at 0 stacks is 1.25x. The Lies multiplier at 100 stacks is 1.875x (1.25x base effect * 1.5x at 100 stacks for the stack effect).
If you average the DPS over a full rotation of stacking Lies, it falling off, then the 1 second cooldown, it turns out the average multiplier is around 1.52x (1 second to stack to 100) to 1.54x (10 seconds to stack to 100) depending on how long it takes to stack to 100.
And it actually turns out that attacking slower with fewer pets slightly increases the relative value of Lies. This effect is quite small though.
Here is the relative multipliers for the stacking Dregs of Lies (both just for the stacking effect and then for the stacking effect times the base effect) for different hydra breakpoints. You can see the relative value of Lies is actually very slightly higher at lower breakpoints, but the difference is extremely small.
| Hydra breakpoint |
Time to stack to 100 |
Average stack multiplier over full rotation |
Average stack multiplier * base Lies multiplier |
| 36 |
6 |
1.229 |
1.536 |
| 30 |
5 |
1.227 |
1.534 |
| 24 |
4 |
1.225 |
1.531 |
| 18 |
3 |
1.222 |
1.528 |
You should either be at the 30 breakpoint (cold, % damage, or CHC on shard) or the 24 fpa breakpoint (IAS on shard).
If you use the Remnant of Pain with the 50% attack speed buff (and IAS as the level 2 effect), it’s possible to hit the 18 fpa breakpoint. This would be a 33.3% damage increase over the 24 fpa breakpoint.
So the 50% attack speed buff on Remnant of Pain is effectively a 1.33x multiplier. If the 100% crit effect worked, between the higher breakpoint and the crit buff this could be competitive with Lies.
Except… the crit buff doesn’t work. And now you also take the 15% crit chance loss with no way to make it up by leveraging the 100% crit effect. The loss of 15% crit chance costs you about 20% dps, so that means the effective multiplier of Remnant of Pain with the attack speed buff and the crit chance loss is only about 1.1x.
With Remnant of Pain at 1.1x effective multiplier between the higher breakpoint but the crit loss… that means it’s strictly worse than the base multiplier of 1.25x on Lies. Even if you never have a single Lies stack from the stacking effect… Remnant of Pain is still worse. The 100% crit effect has to work for Remnant of Pain to be worth using with hydras. Without it… it’s always worse than Lies in all situations.
Your Ring of Fire for push setup up makes sense where 100% on groups of 10 or more really only shines on speeds since Typhon’s hydras actually utilize Area damage unlike all our other popular push builds besides LoD Twister and AO builds.
