Purists will kill this game early with their fear of change

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
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i`m not agree with diablo 3 fan change

but have to say this game need a balance update

i play diablo 1 from the first day same with d2

and patch 1,10 have some massive change changing 70% how the game is play and never have any balance update , breaking melee build so bad and same for pvp melee build . also caster using eternal bug armor +teleport + holy freez rune mix , make melee build unplaybale in pvp , i use to be a #nochange wow classic player and down the road me and a lot of #nochange player and also blizzard realize change is need , because the game is 20 year old and player find the way to exploit stuff making the game unplayable ,

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122

Not drastic changes, more like changes that would have actually been made to the original game if they had actually decided to keep supporting it just like all D2 previous patches

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123

Well the only reason you want changes cus you couldnt beat hell on your own. The game is just to hard for you. But that is no reson to make it easier.

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124

I am sorryā€¦ I didnā€™t know you were a fortune teller and a psychic who can peer into ā€œWhat could have beenā€ to unmask the developers true intentions all along!

I must say, I must sayā€¦

125

Awwww. Thatā€™s cute. You think that there wonā€™t be bots. You clearly donā€™t know what youā€™re talking about. Blizzard is absolutely awful about stopping botting and cheats and BNet 2.0 changes nothing. D3 has bots, so I wouldnā€™t be so sure that D2R is going to be clean.

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The board game monopoly is a classic game that was first published by Parker Brothers in 1935. This game has clearly withstood the test of time (>80 years) AND it also has optional officially-sanctioned rules for variant play by Hasbro that now owns the rights to the game.

A game can maintain faithfulness to the original and also allow for variants play to co-exist.

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127

Ty buddy, iā€™m not gay tho.
I do think there will be bots / hacks / dupe / bugs / import. I just donā€™t give a sh*t about it. I will play the game as it is, no need to change anything.

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128

When we mean purists - the best sense of what people mean or, ā€˜ought to meanā€™ are people who reflexively(see knee-jerk reaction) reject changes not based on anything like logic or reason but just those who reject it because its not exactly what was in Diablo 2 originally.

While this response system helps prevent endorsing wild changes that themselves are poorly thought out or fundamentally change the game - its not a good approach for changes that donā€™t affect the core gameplay that this response seeks to protect. QOL Changes are the best example of this - there isnā€™t really any harm in making allowing any character to continue to make cows despite killing the cow king because even without such a change being formally made they can still do that(another character makes the portal, they rejoin the game with the character they want to cow with.) There isnā€™t any reason to not permit this from the perspective of whether it changes core gameplay - it doesnā€™t but a purist will unthinkingly reject it out of hand because its not the same as diablo 2.

To have this game be exactly the same 20 years ago would be a massive missed opportunity - this game isnā€™'t perfect in all respects despite being the best arpg ever made. But most of those things relate to QOL that can be fixed in 2021 without affecting core play.

Diablo 2 Remastered actually has a better ā€˜use-caseā€™ or reason for being remastered because of it. Warcraft 3 was far harder to remaster because there really wasnā€™t much to change - it was almost perfect as it was. Iā€™ll admit to not buying it - it just had a graphics overhaul which i didnā€™t like and not much else besides removing my ability to make ladder smurf accounts.

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I donā€™t see many people rejecting removing the cow king limitations.

People are being called purist when they explain how something does change the core gameplay and the person who likes the change just doesnā€™t agree.

A lot of the ā€œQOLā€ changes are attempts to augment core game mechanics and they get push back, rightfully. I have seen more arguments on ā€œwill this change core game mechanicsā€ than I have seen if the idea is good or bad.

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130

  • Warcraft 3 Reforged says hi. It brought new visuals and such too. But much of the marketing and promotion shown in Blizzcon was not in the final release. Gone was the overhauled UI. Gone was the Culling of Stratholme cinematic.

  • While the game being ported to consoles is certainly going to pull in a wider audience? I think you have to remember that the original D2 sold 2 million in one and a half months. And I would say D2 has aged better than some games. You can still play D2 even with itā€™s lower resolution. How many live service games can you say that about today? I think D2 will be fineā€¦even if it didnā€™t come to consoles.

  • That is pure speculation and ā€œWhataboutism.ā€ Many of D2ā€™s systems and mechanics are still fine today. Why do you think many WoW players lamented the pruning of talents in WoW, even in D3 talents were pruned compared to what we had in D2. I would be willing to bet that a lot of console players have probably played Diablo 2 as well. There is probably a significant amount of overlap. I played D2 on PC obviously. But with it coming to Switch? I may buy two versions so I can take advantage of the cross progression and play at home and on the go.

  • Wouldnā€™t you say that if the game caters solely to new players and just gives the finger to the older players that they would then drive away the old players too? Again look at Warcraft III reforged. Many of the people that played Warcraft 3 for 17 years were rightfully ticked off when the game they had enjoyed had things like ladders, etc. etc. removed. And many of them I think probably play with the old graphics too boot. Thatā€™s on top of Blizzard being more draconian with user created content.

  • First this isnā€™t a new game. As you mentioned above. Itā€™s a remaster. Itā€™s not a new game. So part of the appeal of a remaster is going back to something someone loved and updating it for newer hardware which they thus far appear to be doing while walking a fine line. If you go mucking about too much, you risk fundamentally changing the experience. For example. I remember with WCIII reforged where people wanted the unit selection limit removed. But as Pro player Grubby pointed out? This would fundamentally change the meta of a game that people have played for 17 years and not only thatā€¦changing unit selection cap would then have meant that balancing would be thrown off and they would have to balance around that change. That also means unit comps, etc. would change.

  • Telling people that they have to accept changes to a game they have enjoyed for years is as much gatekeeping as a purist telling a newcomer that they have to accept the game as is. Itā€™s not very conductive to having a discussion about a game when you effectively tell people with very strong feelings and who are passionate about D2 to either like what they are given or gtfo.

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133

OP makes a pretty good point.

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134

OP has no clue from this game and just wants to make the game easier. This is the sad reality.

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135

Yeah but the only audience this game would appeal to after the first month or maybe first ladder would be the current D2 audience who already play the game. Iā€™d wager with how tedious some of the stuff in D2 was/is a lot of people will abandon the game pretty fastā€¦ which Iā€™m fine with since I mostly play by myself anyway. Iā€™m all for the remake and Iā€™ll enjoy it either way but yeah, there are reasons not a ton of people play D2 anymore. Iā€™ll be happy either way, Iā€™m currently leveling a Barb in single player, just acknowledging the OP does make a decent point. :slight_smile:

Edit: also didnā€™t see anything about wanting to make the game easier, which I do not support. Theyā€™ve said mechanically the game will be the same. Let us have a shared stash, who caresā€¦

Actually, a 2nd edit: ā€œWho caresā€ is meant to be a rhetorical question since I know some dummy is going to reply telling me exactly who cares and why. I do get it, just I personally donā€™t really care. The game has been out for 20+ years, so we are all in our 30ā€™s here, yes? So let me ask again who REALLY cares in the grand scheme of thingsā€¦

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136

All im asking for is Shared stash and Ladder runewords being put on Single Player (or option to play Ladder on Single Player) and in all fine. Nothing else

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137

Purists killing this game ?

I am not a purist, i am even somebody who is open for changes but i am complete to agree with the purists or lets say with people who played this game for so long to keep it alive to get a remaster.

Its one reason not all of the reason why D2 gets a remaster, so many youtuber did videos how much d2 players are still playing this game to keep it alive, Blizzard did a analyze why d2 is successfull. (d4 is in development because of d2)

I am for changes but fundamental changes from example like the loot system, changes like monster abilities for an example Mana burn or Potion spamm are not keeping this masterpiece alive anymore, and it will be become a game which we already have. I donā€™t get it why people still want these changes if we already have Diablo 3 with his incompetent loot, trading, leveling, gearing up system and more of that with the same boring simple stuff.

For an example: Imagine we have Personal Loot, I know for a fact it will be a disaster, another point it will increase the drop rate because we cant fulfill the people anymore. Somebody will say then : Look i got this op drop and the other says then I got only these bad items like a white item or maybe nothing. Again forums get spammed, please increase the drop, please change this, please make this, please make that and bla and bla and bla. We all know, these scenarios will happening. Itā€™s actually already ruined this game by adding a loot system like that, a part of the fundamentals are gone.

Personal Loot will be the Start of the disaster, the social personality aspect will be gone, we canā€™t fulfil people what they want, and it will come changes after changes and will ruin this game forever

For the devs and actually for everyone

Keep the fundamentals, add the promised QoL, fix the bugs, after release think about the balancing aspect of this game after the community is build up. Slowly but safe changes are keeping games alive. Fast Decision and totally drastically changes got a huge impact, and it will destroy everything in a game.

Diablo 2 is so unique and such a masterpieceā€¦donā€™t let it get ruined like so many games. We already got all these game, let it be his own unique style, there will even come a bigger community as in D3 and in a lot of other ARPG games as well.

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138

D2R is clearly made to return old hardcore fans to phranchise. They have d4 for new players. And they want new players to go there, not just some old game that is not even a game as a servise, like new one.

D2R is a reputational thing mostly, little investment, so old hardcore gamers will stop telling everyone that blizzard is not same blizzard it was before. It meant to satisfy old hardcore fans, not new players.

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139

If it was made for old fans only they wouldnt have put in the work to port it to all these consoles. This means they are really seeking a huge audience while pretending to cater to old fans.

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The game held its own for 20 years in spite of an ever growing difficulty gaining access to the game, installing and playing it, and now the game will somehow flop because Iā€™m putting my foot down to leprechaun and fairy mechanics.

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141

By held its own you mean there are still 20 people still playing it? and the game not getting any support from blizzard anymore?

I barely see any youtubers playing the game anymore, just this one guy who was im the blizzard interview

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Hence why theyā€™re creating D2R.