You’re going the wrong way with this. Legendary themselves are ruining itemization. They need to have down sides. Static stats that can’t roll as high as rares. Bis shouldn’t be a legendary for every slot. You should value the higher stat roles that rares have for some slots. For really powerful legendary affixes, the item itself should have some negative to it (reduced life/damage/something).
Legendaries being bis for every slot is single handedly ruining itemization. If there was one single thing they shouldn’t have brought from D3, it is the item system.
E/ by static stats I mean there shouldn’t be “random mods” but more like D2 uniques. A unique has specific stats on them. So it would work like: you can use this legendary but this legendary doesn’t have attack speed which is desired for this item slot. So you will need to make that up somewhere else)
6 Likes
That’s another side of this issue. As I mentioned, rares can potentially match legendaries by purely stat-based rolls being higher than legendaries but with no effect. But they are nearly always imperfect and have a huge range disparity, whereas I’m saying legendaries should be the opposite and have very little disparity being rarely/never useless.
The hope is every legendary you find guarantees you will use it matching the level of any other legendary, whereas rares and magic you have to burn through thousands to find one that matches a legendary.
I don’t think I want them to be BiS. But I do want a more slow progression from items where your yellows are still useful into late game. I’d like to eventually get full legendaries, but I want that to be a slow build up. Not “oh it’s day 2 in the season and I have my full set and legendary everything already”.
1 Like
While I don’t think Legendary items necessarily require downsides, I do agree that the more pressing issue is the lack of competition for the item slots.
For a healthier itemization, legendary items (or any item tier really) need items that compete for best in slot. And those items don’t HAVE to always be the same tier or a higher tier if the itemization itself is properly balanced.
And because of this, I think even ‘useless’ legendary items have a place.
For example…
A unique amulet with ONLY +10 to Hydra might be competitive to a unique amulet that gives +1 to Hydra, ‘Hydra attacks ignite the ground’, Health +100 (or something).
Though healthier itemization might see the +10 amulet be a Magic item instead.
I think the legendary mods themselves would make them never useless. It should be about how much you are willing to sacrifice for that legendary mod. For instance if one of the best legendary mods for your build is on a chest piece that has no life and -all resists. You want that mod but now you will have to make use of rares in other slots that have higher roles to make up what you lost. Uniques will be bis, but will need to be complemented with rares in other slots just to make up for missing stats.
It will be impossible to make legendaries all useful to everyone. There should be good and bad ones just like with everything else. Maybe some have some niche uses but an item shouldn’t have an inherent value just because it is a higher tier.
“And even though I have all legendary and set items indistinguishable from everyone else, they’re trash-tier legendaries putting me just over 1M dps and I have to farm 1000 more of the same legendaries that finally puts me at 5M dps, basically, legendaries have a 1-5M dps disparity, I’m so excited to farm!”
thats exactly what it should be.
but the problem were talking about is.
having legendary item, and ancient legendary with same stats but better.
what makes first legendary pure crap since ancient is way better.
unless we get option to UPGRADE it to ancient wich could actually fix that problem
The issue with that is that trade doesn’t exist in D3. There should be no items that are untradeable. Right now mythics seem slotted to be untradeable but really hoping they change their stance on it. Basically you should be able to accumalate wealth so that even if you don’t find that legendary you need, you can trade for it.
It’s quite simple really, if there was a dps model capped at 5M for example,
Magic-rare at max lvl, base 500k-3M dps, legendary full-set 3.5-4.5M, Mythic 4.8-5M.
That’s it.
I think they should set it up as such:
Magic (Blue): 1 Prefix, 1 Suffix, highest maximum potential value on its rolls.
Rare (Yellow) 3-4 Stats with maximum roll potential slightly lower than Magic. More versatility at the cost of sheer power. Has more raw power than legendary due to the extra stat.
Legendary: 3 stats with 1 legendary affix. Max rolls tend to be slightly lower than Rare. Legendary affix has a special trait that doesn’t increase damage but can alter game play in an appropriate build to make up for raw power loss.
Sets: 3 stats, with a set bonus at 2 pcs, 3 pcs and 4 pcs. Tends to focus on specific traits of a specific class.
This way, Magic items could be BiS as they have the highest potential values, while Rare offers extra stats at minor loss of power in comparison to Magic. Legendary item’s special affix should be a fair trade off for 1 less stat. Sets are very focused for a specific class as a kind of “Build me and you can win” for those that don’t like theory crafting but enjoy loot hunts.
Ancients and primals should not be a thing at all. I don’t like the idea of trying to hunt the exact same item multiple times because of power bloat.
That’s another thing: Design the game with a power ceiling in mind, so the out of control power bloats of D3 should NEVER happen.
1 Like
Yeah, I don’t think ancients should exist.
1 Like
The problem with ancients is once you get to them, you don’t even look at non-ancient anymore, it’s just a secondary grind of the exact same set of legendaries with a whole new tier of stats. So you ONLY farm ancients. It’s depressing to find a legend and hover over it and it’s non-ancient—INSTA-salvage. Awful loot design. The whole concept is tailored to the idea of DECEIVING new players into thinking they got something special in the form of a legendary, when it’s really just trash in the scheme of the actual endgame depth of power, and ruins it for the rest of us that want legendaries to be truly distinguished from regular loot. New players deserve better so they can be conditioned to appreciate real value of authentic legendary loot. It’s blasphemy. Hell, it’s diabolical.
I’m starting to lean with this opinion as well.
1 Like
There. Maybe you can read that easier now, sweetie.
2 Likes
On the right track, Zeddicuus - I wish the developers would also consider:
-
using the old prefix/suffix names from D2, cruel, whale, evisceration etc…
-
incorporate a tiered item level based on player level. Similar to the below cut and past from Arreat Summit, but obviously abbreviated due to level 40 level cap
+ Damage
(cannot spawn on Staves, Wands, or Orbs)
Available on
Jagged +10-20% Damage Circlets(1), Weapons(1)
Deadly +21-30% Damage Circlets(5), Weapons(5)
Vicious +31-40% Damage Weapons(8)
Brutal +41-50% Damage Weapons(14)
Massive +51-65% Damage Weapons(20)
Savage +66-80% Damage Weapons(26)
Merciless +81-100% Damage Weapons(32)
Ferocious +101-200% Damage Weapons(41)
Cruel +201-300% Damage Weapons(51), Weapons(56)
I would also like them to consider the 3 item types for weapons and armor, Normal, Exceptional & Elite
Even if these suggestions have to be condensed/truncated the lore value and homage to D2 would be appreciated by a lot of fans - It could still fit within your vision of Diablo IV…
2 Likes
Nice idea, but Im too afraid it wont happen - it is too much similar to Median XL which can be “copyrighted” (idk better term) as a game design feature - especially that normal, exceptional, elite part (are you a fellow Duncraig/Faustinville farmer?).
1 Like
yup, they’re making the same mistakes right from the get go but i have faith in this team to take the community’s feedback very seriously
1 Like
You never know, at least it’s early in the development process so at least we can try!
I don’t understand the term Duncraig/Faustinville farmer - I’ve just been playing Diablo for a long time.
sorry guy but itemization look the same of d3 a bunch of stupid stats
item slot dont respect the purpose of the slot , boot suppose to be about running , glove about ias or casting rate , but d3 and d4 are only slot to put a bunch of stupid stats also heavy or light armor have any weight that affect your running speed , all weapon have any minimum damage and max damage all weapon have the same speed , this game is d3 again very very basic mechanism
1 Like
Oh, nevermind then - D2 has a mod Median XL which adds A LOT (like full endgame zones based on lore), revamps classes (6 skill trees for each class + 5 class specific “master/uber skills”, max level is there 130 or 135). It has exactly the Normal,Exceptional and Elite system of gear, even for uniques. Duncraig and Faustinville are endgame farming zones.
1 Like