At the start, yes. When you enter a plateau and get that proper market share, things get finicky but smoother. Look at most CEOs, most of them already come from rich families.
No? Area Damage% procs is stat that come from gear and paragons; as server has to check for position of surrounding entities so often with each occurance, it causes lag. Area damage in a general sense also can mean damaging spells with a large “area of effect”.
Area damage is promoted in solo but still a hazzard for group play. Whoever going into group play removes that from paragon to not induce lag. They have some certain buffs and Pylons to cover the lack of that. All in all meta have been two damage dealers and lack of that is hardly a loss for them.
How making players isolated is Massive Multiplayer Online design 101?
Giving solo players a small boost is also balance.
and as you’ve demonstrated, it being artificial is clearly not so much of an issue that it should be off the table. You’re willing to entertain the idea of artificial modifiers when it benefits you.
Then the only advantage would be being better at the game, which is natural.
So 1) they are promoting AD despite it adding extra stres to the server 2) if you want to use AD solo play is promoted to avoid lagging in groups.
Despite your claim that a business would never do such a thing.
Players removing AD in groups is a player-driven solution, not the company making changes to fix their server issues.
To make the game run smoother. Server being offline is also fairly isolating.
And despite your imaginary tech stuff, the server just runs better if you split people up more.
That’s more or less mandatory, because otherwise server drops all four of them like a bag of bricks. Each D3 player having more than 13 stash tabs also make the server struggle for synchronization and you sit under a bridge claiming that Blizzard should make tenfold large skilltrees for D4. I find that amusing but I’m kind of tired of your fetch quest.
So an MMO game server will go offline to “solve” the issue?
For MMO games you won’t like players getting together because having all those people in one spot means there are more things to do collision check, synchronize and download for client.
Regardless, grouping players up in separate sessions mean less hashes will be handled for randomly generating dungeons (most MMOs have almost a static model) and data stream will keep focused.
Plus you can limit the sessions to an arbitrary number of players, for your wide scale performance. Your engine can not be so crap that it shuts down when it sees 2 people nearby each other. MMO games can see 100 players in the same zone but if 35-40 of them get near and server has to check different commands and reflect some framerate issues to those players as server struggle to render 40 players seeing different things has to be synchronized and collision checks are just enough of a burden on itself.
To not let that happen you just limit the player amount per session and don’t make your game an MMO, or don’t confuse isometric MMO-lite ARPGs with MMORPGs. Simple enough… Well… I hope so…
And yet not something the devs adressed, despite your claim that they would never allow such a thing to happen.
As explained to you multiple times, saving skill selections and saving items are not remotely the same.
No, they will split players into more separate instances, to reduce server load (and thus prevent the server from going offline). As in the opposite of what you think happens.
Exactly what I am saying.
And this also holds true for Diablo 4.
Yes, but the former issue as you finally seem to grasp, matters way more for the performance.
As you also seem to have understood with the AD example.
No, 400 players on one server require 400 channels (aka 400 TCP or UDP (depending on your network engine design) connections). 400 players on 400 servers require 400 connections too. Depending on what is simulated on the server you could argue you would require less CPU time if players are grouped. But we don’t know exactly how the D4 engine works and how much more calculations are required if more people play on one server. And most servers are Virtual Machines these days, so you run much more single player servers then group servers on a piece of hardware.
I don’t think this is much of an issue here. It worked for Blizzard in D3 and would work just as well in D4.
wow, and I’d thought I’d heard all types of BS being spun lol.
Really? Damn, how do you explain a GR119 3 man done in 7 minutes, and yet my character at the time could only finish a GR110 in 12-13 minutes. The other 2 characters weren’t super geared either I might add, or higher paragon. This was consistent btw, so it was not a result of a soft GR/mob/layout/shrine composition. We were melting mobs like butter. Those very same mobs, nearly 9 GRs lower solo were a crap load harder to kill. Like chalk and cheese.
They addressed it, by putting limiters to traffic for one session. Once you failed to obey that, server drops you.
Demon Hunters lagged the server and amped up their momentum to exploit run GR150s in mere seconds, after that point throughout traffic was more restricted. To the point of some Witch Doctor builds dropping in the middle of a push instead of getting lag spikes in a solo game. Because they create so much summons and mass damage over time effects, server thinks player intended to exploit the game and drops it when they reach some sort of threshold in queued information such as commands, animations, interactions of damage, entity checks for position and so on.
Both is still processed by server. Skill tree is part of character data and can have many variables up to perhaps a hundred, pushing this further could break the fundamental design of the class, plus it’s unnecessary load for server and can even slow it down while decrypting the character file assets. I’m giving you a reality check, you’re refusing to take it.
MMO players get frame rate issues because their line of sight is much, much vast compared to an isometric ARPG where camera angle is locked. That is one of the major impacts that cause lag issues, because server trying to render the same scenery for 40+ players plus trying to do collision check for terrain and other players.
MMO group ups get worse when mass of players topple up together in one point, forcing server to do collision checks for this massive entity amalgamated from 10-20 players at once.
To achieve good performance, server keeps the raids limited and MMOs by design pull many different tasks for player to achieve. Isometric ARPGs have rather plain takes on collision (however I fear that it’s not the case with D4 after seeing leap/climb points) and limited render calls.
But one server means if you allow them to group up at one session, server have to hand out less hashes for generation of dungeon floors, and loot. This is why D3 tries to keep you together with Strenghth in Numbers buff even.
Server hands out the hash or information that generates your session of dungeons; decide chest placements, decrypting assets on the fly and it’s a burden for it. This is why they tried to minimize this by not allowing you to have more mule characters, lest you swap between them so often and later added closing Greater Rifts in the same session instead of being forced to leave.
You only get forced to leave if there are 4 players, but as I said, one session getting handled for generator of hashes already a burden on its own; it’s still better to handle one hash for 4 players instead of handling 4 hashes for 4 players.
Thinking some points D3 even generates dungeons on the fly, looking at Pylon placements in Greater Rifts, that’s not a bad call. Get disconnected in the middle of the game, and you will see that map is not even finished with 10 yard large square tiles looming over what seem to be the end of the Sanctuary.
If server keeps 20 players in one session, it will hand out less hashes also make more players happy. If all of these players split in different sessions the hash handouts for randomization causes an extra burden in server traffic. That’s what I meant by it.
Are you genuinely calling “game crashes” a solution to game mechanics causing lag?
It literally is a flag, do you have this skill yes/no?
Unlike items.
Okay, that isn’t entirely true, each skill has a rank, but still, nothing compared to items.
If storing peoples skill selections on your server is causing issues, you probably should quit the online gaming business.
No, no you really aren’t connected to any kind of reality on this.
Your framerate is not causing lag. Your framerate is a local thing, the server do not care.
Yes, as I said. More people in fewer sessions is not beneficial.
Not really. It is fairly common for MMOs not to have player collision. Likely partly for this very reason (well, that and the massive amount of griefing it would create).
More or less a shortcut. Years ago, you only get away with an instant death somewhere, after exploits surfaced, you get a drop.
This still means the asset size will grow larger if it were to get tenfold large. Let along design is easier to be said than done. Each class has their own fundamental designer and they won’t go out of that path or make it flexible to create a homogenized experience.
Show proof maybe? I’m telling you, you’re increasing the hex data and whatever they have by tenfolds and yet have galls to say that it won’t create burden for server.
Even the slightest change can impact the server when you hit the scheme to millions of players. You’re thinking of interior tests with 100 QA staff or you and your buddy only existing players in this game. Real gameplay test is out there when it’s mashed through by millions of players. They’re not bad designers, you’re just playing Zoltun Kulle in the story as if you can ride angels like horses.
Let’s call it position check then. You’re not free from that. Even if players can phase through, they still have collision just it’s not a solid matter. That allow server to pick which parts to render when looked from outside.
Sure, it would be 0.000001% larger or something along that line. This continues to not be the reason for the lackluster skill twig.
No, increasing the skill tree tenfold, which would still be a tiny part of the character data, and thus not overload anything.
And again, a tenfold increase in the miniscule skill twig D4 has, would still be next to nothing compared to other A-RPGs skill trees (or similar systems). Games where the servers are usually not catching fire when you load your character.
You really seem to think that Blizzard are extraordinarily incompetent.
Your PC is rendering, not the server. If there is no collision it hardly matters for the server if your PC is showing one character on top of the other or vice versa.
Anyway, yes, having more players in a tight space creates more calculations for the game to handle. Leading back to why the idea of “lets cluster more people in fewer game sessions” that you are running with, is kinda silly.
What are character files consist of anyway? Skill tree is there, even if their flags are null, as in non-allocated or unlocked, it exists in hex code. Then there are items you have equipped, items you carry in inventory and allocation of stats and skill points.
If a character has 100 skills including active and passive ones, just because the character is level one and only using one unlocked skill at the start, doesn’t make other 99 go away. Let’s ten fold this and we have 1000 skills. Great, now each character gonna load with 900 more skills from the point they started. Even if those flags are null they still take the same amount of memory in the baseline. Server does NOT dynamically add skill variables to a character as you unlock them, it just flips the already existing flag.
True, but MMOs have usually static places, while ARPGs rely on server creating hashes by some interaction between client and server to generate dungeons and allocate loot for players. If a player enters a dungeon between 10, you send only one hash to that session instead of handing out 10 different ones. Even if players enter 10 different dungeons, you still keep it focused.
Skill tree, attributes, paragon, items, quest progression, other kinds of event progression (renown and such). Season/battle pass progression (well, per account, but still). Character cosmetic choices (clearly they should go back to one look per class, so we dont crash the server!!).
It is fair to assume that item data is by far the biggest chunk here, probably by many orders of magnitudes.
After that maybe quest/event data or paragon data? Then I guess the skill tree might show up.
Ah yes, when you have lost too much it is time for the strawmanning.
But honestly, even 1000 skills would still not get close to the data it takes to store your items.
Benefit me?? How??? Because I play MP, which I said I mostly play solo. I just don’t like artificial handicap, which is my point all along.
I dislike in principle synergy and group efficiency are gimp to be on par with solo.
The same reason I will oppose fat people started nearer to the end point in a 100m sprint race.
What’s the point of a sprinter working hard to run faster when the result will be equalize?
If you want to get faster loot, get a group of friends to play together and share among yourselves, not demanding loot to be reduce when playing in group to offset people willing to share!, because you want to solo.
If you don’t agree, fine, but at least understand and not misinterpret my position.
The modifier doesn’t give a positive or negative advantage, as you seen the equation. It balance out. The loot and xp over time is same as solo!
If 2 players play, I double the Hp of mobs, how is that a bonus? It juts make sure MP is not super easy!
Balance not equal bonus. If every player extra you gain extra 20% xp, 20% more loot per person . That’s bonus! This I did not call loft
Nobody would know for sure. Items in D3 siphons affixes and activates them for a limited amount. A skill tree can consist of many different combinations and synergies, and much more complex to tie with different things. If items deliver effect, skill tree is delivering cause. They’re sort of different things and has to have indepth coding to collaborate with outlier effects like items or other modifiers.
That’s why they are minimalistic on other aspects. Maybe?
Which is not something you have to store for the character. You only need to store whether a character has picked a skill (and which rank). What the skill does is not tied to the character.
What an affix do on an item is also not tied to the item, and of course also not something you need to store with the character. What you do need to store however, is which affixes an item has, and which value those affixes have. Which is just a lot more variables than a skill tree has.
If items take 90% of your storage and skill tree takes 1%, trying to cut the skill tree wont matter much there. Would be a much better solution to slightly reduce the stash space then, allowing for that tenfold increase in the skill tree.
Not that either should really be needed. Since again, other games manage to have both massively larger skill trees, AND massively larger stash space, at the same time.
You are underestimating Blizzards capabilities on a level where even I cant follow.
Complete assumption. That doesn’t even add up to 100%.
In D3, legendary power items have flags that activated from character data as well. You can’t tell me legendary powers won’t be included so you can tenfold skill tree like it’s story driven quest and won’t care for class identity or balance.
You’re underestimating technical limiters and assume beta test is final destination. Similar goes to you.
Well, we have an agreement! Any extra bonus from MP will depend how much extra efficiency you can squeeze in teamwork. The baseline is normalize. As in loot and XP over time are similar to solo.
So you do not get cheap extra xp, loot, just by playing MP. Like T16 rift , where everyone juts blast and go their own way.
You gain extra juice only by being efficient and play as a group. This is the best middle ground imo.
Uh, you already forgot that the character consists of more than items and skills? Despite talking about it like 20 mintues ago
You dont store (at least that would be really bad) what the legendary power does, on the character. You only store which power it is, and the numeric value it has rolled with.
What?
Adding more legendary powers wont themselves cause a lot of extra character storage.
But hey, in the imaginary situation where Blizzard had to choose between adding more skills/skill mods to the skill tree, and adding more legendary affixes, they sure should add more to the skill tree. Always. However, that isnt an actual choice when it comes to character storage.
What takes up character storage is storing items in the stash (technically, if it is a shared stash, it takes up account storage, not character storage, but I guess you dont particularly care about the difference).
So I guess you could remove a page in the stash to allow for the extra skill flags? That sure would be a good trade to make.
Rather, you are making up technical limitations that do not exist.
How exactly do you think other, much smaller companies than Blizzard, handles these imaginary limitations of yours?
