Not to mention if this happened botters wouldnt have as much of an edge on casual or legit gamers.
People can flame on me as much as they like, but i remember when countless streamers fell asleep mid stream and half didnt even get perm ban if at all…
Lets face it, they bring in the views, serve as pr/marketing agents, and no changes are going to be introduced to stop the only thing that brings spotlight to this game.
1 Like
That is not being a true fan. That is blind loyalty. A true fan would be honest and critical about the mistakes made in this franchise.
I have owned and played every Diablo game and its expansion since the beginning. D3 disappointed its fanbase heavily from the start. This is why it experienced major changes. We came back to see the differences, but fell off again as this game does not live up to its predecessors. Blizzard catered to the elements of its monetized WoW franchise when designing this dungeon crawler sequal. Diablo 3 lacks depth.
1 Like
I’d say majority play a lot less than that. I don’t think I’ve played more than 200 hours in a season yet. If you’re over 300 hours, you should easily be at 1500 paragon each season and well over 2k at this point in time.
As long as they don’t mess barb up, I plan on playing a lot this season though. Maybe even hit 2k paragon.
1 Like
Seriously? Like everyone else said, you categorize players that play 3 to 5 1/2 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 90 days straight, as casual?
What the hell is a hardcore player?
And I may be wrongly opinionated, but I feel that anyone who calls for a Paragon cap is an envious player; a player who suffers from an inferiority complex, who believes that the only way they can feel equal or superior to others, and thus raise their own self-esteem, is to handicap those others.
In the addiction recovery realm I have seen this emotional defect and thinking error repeatedly from family members who would actively attempt to sabotage the recovering family member, because if that person actually recovered, it would make them look worse. And of course they can’t have that.
Quit crying about a Paragon cap. Play smarter, faster, for longer periods, more often, and in groups, which is the way to gain Paragon levels and be equal and thus competitive on the leaderboards with the people you are envious of, who make you feel inferior, and whom you would handicap so that you can feel better about yourself.
1 Like
At my age with all the parts of me that are wearing out, I’m lucky to spend 3 to 4 hours a week playing!
1 Like
Paragon system could have been a great system. Due all the points you mentioned, it is merely tolerable. The whole character build space could have been great, but the team missed the mark. I do play from time to time, but at the same time I know how awesome this could have been.
I love games because of how great they are. Great games do not dictate what I should do and how much hours should I invest, beyond the tree of simple structure and deep plot. Great games embrace my own scheduled efficiency and they allow me to find my own path that leads to fond memories, without bloated deviation and the cost of identity / style. Fond memories lead to nostalgia. Nostalgia brings me back, again and again. The AAA side of game industry has been falling quite some time now, due it trying to trick their customers.
This said, you mentioned that those who top the ladder should be those with sufficient wits, correct? From my experience, the pool of wits is quite formidable in reach and depth. Maybe the error is not necessarily in the system, but how the ladder is assembled to grasp the system. One’s rubbish is a treasure to another. What I mean by this is that, while I do understand your point about the paragon system, and I agree, what if the true error is that the ladder doesn’t represent all of us; as in the level of our wits. There are multiple segments of wits that I don’t see in the ladder. Blizzard could benefit from adding a significantly diverse ladder to the game(s) that embrace competition. I feel like the current one isn’t as diverse as it could be, to shine as brightly as it could. 
Oof, there’s a lot here man. You may have the better build, but from the other guys perspective he could say “I’ve been grinding every day for 8 hours a day and this guy who barely plays is able to beat me?”
Though, at this point of technology, we will always find out what’s best. There will always be the “cookie cutter” version of the build that just performs well. Gone are the days where we can create the best build and nobody will know about it or be able to replicate it.
If you have a problem with Paragon get good.
Really… I’m tired if whiny casual players complaining that a game as easy as Diablo 3 is “too hard”, go look up guides, and hope that good drops happen otherwise reroll your items, it’s really that simple. There’s a crafting system for a reason, you get a guaranteed primal drop from your first gr70… Really stop complaining or go find another game… if my six-year-old kids can beat torment 16 so can you.
I was kinda hoping someone would catch on to that.
Naturally a true fan would want the item they fan over to be great and successful.
But I have to stand by my other comments regarding paragon. However till we have some actual info as to what the new iteration of Diablo will have, no point jumping up and bumping our heads on the ceiling.
Game on.
1 Like
I actually agree with you, it’s why I’ve stopped playing the game as well. I just have other games to play so I don’t want to sink the thousands of hours in just to really feel like I’m “in the end game”
1 Like
Dude what are u talking about? Beating torments is now problem? Problem is not beating the game but beating players. Diablo 3 is one of the only games in world that relies in a mechanic that Hours → Character power * unlimited amount. Because that is not competitive. It has nothing to do with skill or efficency, only thing is has to do who has most free time and resilence to spend 18hours a day to play the game to keep getting +1 stat points. Im not saying player should not be rewarded for playing full day, since they are. They get more rifts and more loot already to have better chance, there just shouldnt be unlimited stat points. It should cap atleast at 6-8h per day.
1 Like
Free time and dedication, yes. That is why there need to exist different type of LBs.
I wrote at the old forums about all possible competitive options D3 has:
The competition in an aRPG could be organized as follows:
1] Game mode comparing grinding, dedication and time put in the game
2] Game mode comparing skill
2.1] Game mode comparing skill and luck
3] Game mode comparing efficiency
3.1] Game mode comparing efficiency and luck
4] Game mode comparing 1] + 2]
5] Game mode comparing 1] + 3]
6] Game mode comparing 2] + 3]
6.1] Game mode comparing 2.1] + 3.1]
7] Game mode comparing 1] + 2] + 3]
7.1] Game mode comparing 1] + 2.1] + 3.1]In D3 what we have atm is:
A) Season - case 7.1] from the above
B) Non-Season - well, again case 7.1] from the aboveHow the D3 competition could look if we had to incorporate all the categories from above:
1] Total time spend in-game playing - well, that is what a ladder for comparing the pure grinding, dedication and time put in the game is. It’s pretty absurd, but some mega dedicated guy who could be super low skilled and super inefficient would be first on it.
2] This would be Challenge Rifts with tier progression (in order to have a pushing activity) and meaningful builds (in order all skills to be used during the Rift for maximum skill check).
2.1] This would be a Seasonal mode with caps, where people fish and push.
3] Pure efficiency ladder would be a timed league with zero RNG (same item drops for everyone), which revolves around completing fast times GRs (long time GRs would involve a pushing skill).
3.1] An efficiency and luck ladder would be a timed league, which revolves around completing fast times GRs (long time GRs would involve a pushing skill).
4] This would be an infinite stack of Challenge Rifts with long time snapshots at 14 minutes and above (in order to have a pushing activity). The ladder should be sorted by who completed the most number of CRifts.
5] This would be Non-Season in which the maximum GR is capped at 100. The ladder should be sorted by the highest paragon level reached.
6] This would be a timed league with zero RNG (same item drops for everyone), which revolves around completing long time GRs (in order to have a pushing activity).
6.1] This would be a timed league, which revolves around completing long time GRs (in order to have a pushing activity).
7] Season/Non-Season with a static GR for LB pushing.
7.1] This is the current Season/Non-Season case.
Right now you can compete against yourself (the best kind of competition)
Compete against your friends list on your Friends Leaderboard.
Compete against your Clan on your Clan Leaderboard
Compete against your region on the Regional Leaderboard
Compete against the world on the Worldwide Leaderboards
You can do this in HC, SC, Seasonal and Non-Season. You can compete in each class and grouping combination.
You can also compete weekly in the Challenge Rift.
Adding a means to sort regional and worldwide leaderboards by paragon ranges or sets would be nice, but adding even more leaderboards really is not necessary.
It is indeed since a competitive game has to make a check for all types of skill involved in it both combined and separately as illustrated in my previous post.
So basically u don’t know what ur
talking about. Paragon is not perfect but it isn’t the problem.
In Diablo 2 most people didn’t max out a character to the highest level only people that used bots to run 24/7 boss runs did (or high schoolers that didn’t care about ladies). Most people got to about 90 plus or minus 5 levels.
Second nothing can help make this game have any more replay value unless they make some pretty significant changes. Things like items that have much higher roles. Items to make more skills viable and exciting. Or adding pvp/pve game modes that you can take ur character into. Things like capture the flag, hold the point, survive waves until your team does(zombie mode), or many other fun modes that break up the grind fest and make you want to grind the best possible gear. This won’t happen though, sadly. I would pay additional money for all of this.
Just adding an extra bit, a large part of the disconnect in this game involves the fact that you 100% cannot play with any other players in multiplayer unless you have already achieved max level and have paragon. This is a full and complete failure by blizzard. You have taken away the ability of new players to join the game, unless they beat the entire thing by themselves first.
Yes paragon is cheap bandage solution unlike real solution ideas that you presented. Sadly as a game developer myself I know that making some of your ideas would be extremely cheap when u have all the pieces of game that they have and thus one of my “most important questions about life and living” would be asking blizzard that what exactly stops them(and other huge developers) from hiring +4 persons to make it possible to start adding this stuff slowly in to the game as in that this squad should been hired 10 years ago already. They have all the material of the original game and very little coding or extra art assets would be needed to make modes like this happen.
I dont know what exactly YOU think Im talking about, since Im talking about the problems that are CAUSED by PARAGON. Im not talking about “why this game is bad” Im talking about “why current PARAGON SYSTEM” is bad.
I can’t help but see this ultimately as a whine thread.
Essentially what I’m getting from the overall tone:
I don’t have time to play the game as some other players, but want to be able to have the same rewards!
I have to say this: If you can’t put in the same amount of effort why should you get the same results?
Anyway, that’s my overall view on this thread.
I agree that Paragon could have a better design.
I agree that having more Paragon matters.
But I don’t agree with the sentiment that because someone can’t achieve the same results, they need to kneecap those who can.
And for the record, I have over 820 Paragon this season, my highest season paragon was 899, and my off seasonal paragon is somewhere above 1200.
So this isn’t about me having godly high paragon and not wanting change.
Game on.
2 Likes
Well my response was not whiney. The question was kill it or cap it for presumably D4.
My overvalued opinion is kill it and add 20 to 50 levels - Provided other fundamental game changes support the added level cap.
This is not at all what I am saying. As I mentioned, they deserve to have lead on me. They deserve to get better chances with dream rift as they would do alot more of those. They deserve to have better items as they farm more of those. They deserve to learn and know and understand more about the game resulting in better skills to play it.
Problem is that none of these things I just mentioned matters when what they get is time*characterpower for infinite amounts. This means that only people able compete for rank1 of this game are of those who A. Stream this game for living and thus play it all day. B. Have no job.
So I guess that actually explains why Blizzard doesent and will not change paragon system in D3, because they might lose their last biggest clients = the content makers, since without the paragon they might not be anywhere near the position to present themselves as top players AND this could lead to them leaving the game, leaving Blizzard empty of content creators for this game resulting in even bigger loss of money and playerbase.
Anyway, I have absolutely no problem with people who get godlike gear because they play alot, I have problem however that 2 equally geared people can be million miles different in character power because other has 5000 hours in diablo 3 and other has 10000 hours. (insert example in seasons with lower numbers). If it was something like 10% lead or 20% lead that could be compensated with RAW SKILL to a certain point, but in diablo it results to UNBEATABLE lead as its hunderds of % advantage instead.