Permanent Seasonal Paragon Caps

But that is the thing here. Did you lie in that situation? I didn’t see that discussion so I cannot say. But you might as well lie, when you refused to provide evidence to back up your claim. This is a bit more complicated than this. And bringing examples that I cannot check is counterproductive.

And the fact if they think if they participate honestly in a discussion is irrelevant to what evidence say. And evidence I provided does say that this person was arguing in dishonest fashion.

Yes it does. If they avoid question on purpose because it will show how full of it they are then they are not arguing in an honest fashion.

Then you point that out and explain how it is asked “in bad faith”…

Huh? Care to elaborate on that?

Then you point out that the question is loaded… Ignoring it just shows you are not arguing honestly!

It was not spiteful!

How was it spiteful? Care to elaborate?


Care to give examples?

Nice straw man you built here. Was it fun to knock it down? So now maybe address actual point made?

Coool… How this is analogous to what I said?


Nope, words do not have intrinsic meanings. If they would, language wouldn’t evolve. Because if something has intrinsic meaning that implies it means always the same thing and always will mean the same thing.

So you are just wrong here.

Well, I’d like to see that for myself… Because when I ask for good evidence, and then I point out that something that some one gave is not good evidence it is just me holding to a good standard of evidence, not “trolling”, nor “not caring about evidence”.

You talked about numbers, I gave you mathcraft then you didn’t like the answer you getting, then pettily blamed me about it. Greater Rifts are still rewarding as they offer augments, Petrified Screams and gem ranks; you just don’t have to grind anymore for passive power, because you already have power. What you seek is control by allocating and re-allocating the Paragon points depending on your equipment.

I gave you good evidence, you dismissed it. You can get stronger by playing Greater Rifts but this won’t come easily from speedfarming as you always have to push for gem ranks and leaderboards now. Whenever you need to have a key, you drop it down and farm for it so you can grab one and get going at upgrading augments. All of these are still part of rewards of Greater Rifts. Which part excludes power? Leaderboards? They were part of this game for long. Petrified Screams? Now you have to push and get better, you still gonna get rewarded and it won’t be too hard now that you have a 6GR advantage.

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  • Cap it at 1000 (this way you get 200 extra, which can be spent in one of the paragon pages of your choice. Reinforcing the choice part of it.
  • Rebalance the bonuses, so each of them are more equal. In particular the AD bonus
  • Lower XP gain by 50%
  • Add other bonuses for paragon above 1000.
    Like, every 100 you get a an echoing nightmare or ramaladnis gift, every 200 lvl you get a random primal ancient. Every 500 you get a Dream GRift. Or similar.

No, I did not however, the other person was so adamant that they began using incorrect terms as a sort of “last ditch effort” to grasp at straws.

I’ve read both of what you and he have said. I do not see any evidence to support that he was being dishonest. It comes across as not seeing eye-to-eye.

You are free to think that. I can ignore any question anybody asks me. That does not make me dishonest. That’s like calling someone a chicken if they refuse to fight.

I may not think it is, that doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t. I cannot speak for him, I was only giving one of many reasons.

If someone is having a discussion and their only intent is hoping you slip or they can take something you say deliberately out of context so they can go “LOL GOTCHA”, just walk away. That person is conversing in bad faith.

I’m afraid it doesn’t. Because if someone is speaking to you in an aggressive or manner that clearly shows they’re not calm, it doesn’t matter what you say. They have no intention of saying “Yeah, I made a mistake”. Ignoring it, walking away is the best thing you can do.

It wasn’t necessary. Comments like that do nothing more than “fan the flames”. Their only purpose is to annoy the other person and prod them into saying something further so the person who said it can say say “I knew it”.

Troll. That’s the word we’re focusing on right now.

I never said you held that position.

Ok, it’s clear you, yourself are not interested in an honest conversation. I wasn’t giving you a hard time. I was just sharing some experienced views. So with that last comment, I will end our discussion. I hope you have a good and safe weekend.


Every once in a while it can increase your luck for rolling Orek’s Dream or Primals after scoring an additional 100-400 over 800 limit. That could work, as we already have doubled Primal drop this Season and nothing is too far fetched.

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1k sounds fair enough.
I think lower is still better, sort of like challenge rifts.
Let the gear hunt become more meaningful.
They might not need to nerf much with a paragon cap :billed_cap:

Why are we still at this? I didn’t see that so I cannot say. It is just hearsay at this point.

So, you think that them ignoring actual point I made and then using ad hominem to discredit me is not dishonest?


You can… But then you cannot say you argued in an honest way! That is the whole point!

So, you refuse to answer question that some one asked you because someone else might think it was asked in a bad faith? I am confused now!

And you have evidence to back that up in the said situation right?

Or you just assert that when some one ask you a question because reasons?

SO? You still do this. Because when I read this as a 3rd person you are coming across as dishonest in that situation. hence your credibility goes down…

And? You expose them for what they are.

Now you just making a point that we shouldn’t counter claims that earth is flat. Because flat earthers won’t admit that they are wrong, so walking away is “best choice”… But many people might get misinformed because of that. This is contributing to the problem.

Now you assert a purpose to my words. Care to provide evidence that this was my purpose and it is “the only one”?

Asserted without evidence, so dismissed without evidence.

No it does not have intrinsic meaning!

Then why did you wrote it to me?

Makes straw man… then when pointed out it was a straw man claims “you are not interested in honest discussion”… This is pure delusion!

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I’ve played this game for thousands of hours. Yeah, pretty sure I’m not gonna learn much new at this point. I get no enjoyment out of spending hundreds or thousands of keys for that perfect grift to end up on a board. Char progress is what I find fun.

The cap at 800 doesn’t last “weeks”, it barely last days. I will by all certainty be done with everything that can be done outside grinding the boards which I have no interest in by season start Saturday, hence my total dislike for the cap.

Removing one of the biggest carrots to play a season is “no harm”? Of course to friggin is.

Once you’ve geared to a decent point upgrades are rare and far between. Having the constant progress that is paragon removes the feeling of wasting your time in the 20+ hours in game you can easily go between upgrades.

Don’t bother, he’s a special individual that one. Prove him wrong enough times and he puts you on ignore while claiming you’re a troll.


And that’s fine. If you feel like this, then you shouldn’t have much expectations.

That is the point I’m not entirely buying, but still I understand from a certain viewpoint.
By the eye-hand coordination skill, you feel like you know everything for adapting your stances in combat and can not afford to treat yourself further. That’s fine and means that you are more than a casual player. This is also understandable that you feel like uncapped Paragon level at least gave you something to look out for, as you wouldn’t improve on stances and cognitive skill at this point or don’t care.

This perfectly makes sense; you and Meteorblade defended from this point and what you said is coherent. But if you claim to be a complete casual yet whine about small guaranteed progression, there’s something very off about this view. A casual player wouldn’t know everything, yet get to still call themselves casuals.

If you claim to know every nitty gritty details about the game, thinking you reach the skill ceiling yet call yourself a casual, I won’t buy that and call it nonsense as it is. If you get obsessed about Greater Rifts but dismiss any other rewards, that still is not a casual mindset. Games always get designed with rewarding low skill player more abundantly but in small batches, and high skill player rarely but sharply; that is complexes of replayability.
Greater Rifts usually fall into the latter if you care to do a comparison; items are abundant, providing materials and Echoing Nightmares are free rank 125 augments. You can not dismiss all of it, then claim a yardstick with leaderboards attached to it supposed to be the sole reason you play this game.

It won’t make a difference at terms of casual players. Capped Paragon level 800 give as much power as plvl 6-7k, which isn’t even close to a level that casual player would get close at non-Seasonal or Seasonal.
Take your current Season progress for example at S28; you said, you scored around 3500 plvl, I think? This adds around a good 20-25% damage boost with, which is comparable to the boost you would be getting from capped Paragon’s offense tab solely, not including boost from AD%. How much difference that made? It added around 2 GR tiers, on top of already abundant 7 GR surge of S28.

That is what top tier players experience once they are not with their groups. When paragon is capped, you expect to gain rewards from items and augments. Former is provided by Visions of Enmity theme Fissures because otherwise, you’d spend a very long time without a proper upgrade. Latter is already taken care of, with Echoing Nightmares, just you have to upgrade what you got further and push at Greater Rifts, instead of following a speedfarm mentality.

You see, players have always been complaining about group players, saying that they leap forward in the leaderboards with high paragon level without walking the same path as a solo player. That Paragon cap is only here for this Season and most likely won’t be a permanent thing for the rest of the game, at least in non-SSF modes.

Second reason developers are pulling this, is that human decision only valued at high GR tiers with intense action and high stakes. Bots at the other hand would follow a very shallow speedfarm route and still get rewarded for it; developers wanted to hit this by this Season theme. In short; if you want to get rewarded, you better hit up high Greater Rifts because that is where augments and gem ranks are.
In short, Greater Rifts are still rewarding but not in a way you want them. Speedfarm is obsolete unless you want to farm Petrified Screams and that is fair in my opinion. Why would I want a video game to reward a repetitive chore better than pushing your limits?

Last reason is, I think, they want to gauge the skill ceiling rightfully and force some builds to be abit more defensive and adapting to optimize their equipment. This is for them to get statistics so when Altar returns with S30, they wouldn’t make it too weak or too powerful by accident. Now that SSF is on the table, I read this Season as that they need some benchmark to diversify its effects between regular game and SSF.

I don’t see how it’s relevant either way whether I consider myself casual or not, the fact is that a cap will have a distinct impact on my enjoyment of the game, that’s what’s relevant.

Fissures is (if the PTR is how it will be on live) about the same item efficiency as grift 90:s in 1-1.30 average. That does not ensure that you get upgrades in a decent timeframe, you can still easily have to play 15+ hours between upgrades.

That progress stagnation being an issue as it is for the hardcore players is beside the point, the cap will make the issue a reality for a much larger percentage of the player base, a part I belong to. I only speak for myself after all, so clearly I will have issues when the game takes a massive leap in a direction I won’t enjoy.

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Yes, paragon cap every season from now on.
Easier to balance and provides a more competitive playing field for LBs. Limitless main stat was a terrible idea to begin with. Skill isn’t really a factor when you have enough toughness to stack all +DMG mods on your build and group up an entire rift level into one giant pack and watch AD scale your damage through the roof. What a generic way to play…

Cap of 800 increasing by 100-200 each season with the excess going only towards the core category like before seems doable.


That is what you’ve been doing at previous Seasons, hopefully VoE theme will shorten that, deeper you delve. Secondly, you don’t need to hit them up constantly as you need a balance between Augments, gem ranks and loot hunt.
Now, these are NOT comparable to what you gain from clearing a high Paragon level, but they are still something.

I compared this Season theme power surge to being 6-7k plvl as they certainly gonna get rewarded very rarely unless they farm with friends and fully pooled. Compared to that, S28 added around 7 GR tiers, only IF RNG goes in your favor (rolling Dimensional Power and Empowered before an important fight); because when it does NOT (rolling experience and speed shrines repeatedly, sometimes no shrine effects trigger) then your stacked Paragon level can save you. This is where your stacked Paragon level comes into play.

This season, the power surge is more stable and doesn’t rely on RNG. You can see this as a result of developers trying to ease casual players to have high levels. Because that is actually a learning curve thrown at the player by developers, this is for teaching players something and gauging some statistics.

If you care about my opinion, I believe it won’t last long and will be gone after S29. For me, this cap is something designed for SSF only with the arrival of Altar and nothing more.

If you excuse me I’ll mute the thread by the way, but I will definitely gonna read what you gonna reply.

I would think so given that it’s written in plain text in the patch notes that it’s season 29 exclusive. I can still state my opinion on the matter.

If anything this season is even more reliant on RNG as you don’t have paragon to make up the difference.

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Well at least we will now see who is on the leader board with out thousands and thousands of paragon.

Not everyone can sit at home all day and grind out paragon. The SSF board should be interesting to watch.

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The top spots will have to grind out thousands and thousands of GR keys instead, presumably. :smiley:

Honestly I could care less about this, I want an enjoyable progress for time invested and grinding for loot with only a chance of getting something I need during a play session, (not even targetted loot btw besides your craftable primal) has never been that.

Well I hope you paragon 800 enthusiasts enjoy D3 in 2012, I got over that a decade ago like most should have.

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yes, after ssf, the paragon ceiling was the best recent change they came up with


800 cap is a joke. Everyone in the group I play with will reach the paragon cap after the first day. What is going to keep our interest for the remaining three months of the season?

I’ve been a proponent of a paragon cap, but it should be 3k minimum and my thinking was 4k. If you want to see how you match up against other people, go do the challenge rift, everyone gets the same map, same gear and same pylons. Trying to judge your GR time against someone else’s time has way more RNG involved. 4k isn’t too hard to get if you grind. Maybe say 3k now that they got rid of rat runs. 3200 would have been good with this new 200 pts per stat. 800 is just a snooze fest after the first day imo.

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Which is right within your S28 (3417P) range. Okay got it. :ok_hand:

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Everyone talks from their own perspective. Alot of the pro 800 cap are lower para in the hope of at least having a shot in the lb.
And when is a person eligible to ask for a certain para cap? If a person is p800 and asks for 3k you could say well you are not gonna reach it anyway what do you care. If a person is 3k you could say well that is around your current para level so no wonder. If a person is 8k para you could say well you have no life anyway or a cheater etc.
Everyone can have their own opinion from their own perspective.