Patch 2.6.8 Feedback on new wizard set "The Tython's Veil"...spoiler, it's junk

Honestly, the new hydra based set “The Tython’s Veil” is either boring or annoying and useless if it behaves as advertised, especially if the Deathwish/Etched Sigil/Mantle of Channeling nerf goes through.

  1. It works like Squirt’s Necklace, which drops immediately and repeatedly if you take even a whisper of damage. That means you’re focused not on damage but on maximizing damage shield uptime and strength or you just lose everything. That will be even worse for this set.
  2. It buffs nothing but Hydras. You can’t and won’t care about any other skill that will do next to zero damage to tougher enemies.

Come on…this is a horrible set with this horrible “try to avoid damage to get any power at all while avoiding casting anything but hydra”. You pretty much run around to avoid projectiles that can actually be dodged while spamming Diamond Skin/Enduring Skin at maximum cooldown reduction and maximum vitality(non-damage stat focus so it isn’t a paper wall), because it is the only potentially permanently maintainable rune option with this set, and spamming hydra to replace any 1 with missing heads, which only replaces the oldest so if the 2nd spawned hydra loses a head then you have to cast it twice to replace the 2nd spawned in order to fix that(unless this won’t ever happen, which is unlikely).
You need maxed out cooldown reduction on gear to maintain Diamond Skin which takes up valuable slots you could use for attack speed since everybody will use the remaining damage for crit chance and crit damage and skill/elemental damage and have no room left for attack speed which has a relatively low effect on this build’s damage but is about the only other stat that helps pet damage.

On a positive note:
I love the new damage buffs tacked onto the hydra legendaries, but they were needing that for a long time.
There are other legendaries with this same problem with none/small damage boost accompanying their utility oriented buff, such as the pitiful 40% damage buff on Orb of Infinite Depth or the non-existent damage buff on Jang’s Envelopment which slows enemies damaged by Black Hole which needs at least 1000% damage buff if you ask me since it is the only Black Hole based legendary.

Back to constructive criticism:
Unsurprisingly, the new set “The Tython’s Veil”, especially at maximum 10 thousand percent damage buff with 2 hydras for a total of 10 heads, is completely worse than either Legacy of Nightmares set or Legacy of Dreams gem which buffs EVERYTHING for 9750% constantly without unrealistic maintenance conditions. Legacy of Dreams even gets half that buff for just plain old legendary items, which is much easier to maintain and not bad at 4875% with no ancients.

Sets based on a single skill that only use and benefit that single only skill are just bad, especially when they are not easy to maintain that benefit without building to maximize another skill entirely which relies on completely useless wrong stats to the focused skill like cooldown reduction needed to keep up a buff constant to avoid losing a buff for a skill that doesn’t benefit from cooldown reduction at all.
This is also why Archon is such a pain to use, especially on console, because the items and stats required to make it as constant as possible, and actually viable, fill up every available gear slot so you can’t benefit from anything else outside Archon while the super short 20 second timer is very unforgiving. At least Archon has it’s own quickly ramping attack speed buff, with the Vyr set, to make up for this significantly and make it actually possible to use.

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As an aside:
Legacy of Dreams needs to max out at rank 50 like Boon of the Hoarder. These 2 gems are popular with everybody and meant to be used, not be “only endgame non-casual player exclusive”. The Legacy of Dreams gem already has that latter element anyway considering it is only max effective with all ancient legendary items and you still need the proper stats on those for your build which requires farming for re-rolling legendaries which can still downgrade to non-ancient.
The expectation to complete several level 90+ Greater Rifts to get the most out of this gem is asking far too much for this already grind-centric gem buff.

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I definitely would have preferred a set focused on Black Hole because it is already meant to be more active, has secondary utility and is completely amazing looking effects. All that would really need is a legendary item buff to cut the cooldown of Black Hole by enough so that it can be relatively spammed or cast every second by Etched Sigil with a relatively reasonable amount of cooldown reduction(or ideally none needed like how Teleport can have no cooldown with an item). This could be a very fun skill to use and focus on as our main damaging and utility skill in a build.

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Hydra is too niche an appeal.
The only reason it was ever a popular build at all was its interaction with the passive Paralysis and Manald Heal ring which interaction was then nerfed, so Hydra lost any popularity it had, and this new set will still not benefit that damage because “it only buffs hydra damage, period”.
This set was a poor design focus decision and even more badly implemented.

Edit:
As I saw in another thread, a set focusing not on Hydra but on Mirror Images combined with Black Hole would be amazing. I don’t mean adding Hydra spam to Mirror Image like past bugs but just making Mirror Images and Black Hole our main damaging skills with a much lower cooldown for Black Hole as well so it could be spammed somewhat so we can “enjoy the light-show”.

Edit 2:
Why do Monks get Inna’s Mantra set gaining a more reliable buff from all their completely mobile pets out that also affects all damage while Wizards get an unreliable buff to just their 2 immobile pets?
Just designing this set like that one would be a lot better, but Hydra is still niche and frankly not appealing.

I play on the PS4, the new changes to the wizard items seem to be geared towards ruining the Bazooka and Reverse Archon Twister Wizard. After last season’s nerf of Vry’s, its GR drop has been significant after playing it this season. Wiz really only has 2 core builds that work for pushing, Vyr’s and LOD. One nerfed last season, the other nerfed next season. I dont see how the Wiz class needed to be nerfd at all over the last 2 season when there’s only 2 viable builds for pushing anyways.

On PC, they have Bazooka, on console, we have the Twister. With these changes, it makes the Twister build worse for no reason at all. This build actually sucks on it’s own. It’s entirely way too squishy as it is. If this is geared toward the Bazooka, you’ve also effected the Twister on console. This sucks because console players don’t have a voice in the PTR.

I played the Necro for 12 seasons until you guys ruined that class. It’s now considered one of the worse classes. Congrats on ruining another class.

LoD Hydra looks like it would be more viable. I hope testing shows what changes will need to made to the set. Possibly MH interaction.

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We’re lucky to even have Twisters at all. On console they never nerfed the Twister mechanics like on PC… I can imagine all the butt hurt console players if Blizz decided to update the twister mechanic on console like PC lol.

Also the nerf has NOTHING to do with the reverse Archon Twister on console at all. The nerf is for the Bazooka and being able to build ur Archon stacks to 100+ throughout the rift. When i was messing around with Bazooka i had gotten up to almost 200 stacks before. Something u currently cant do with reverse Archon Twister.

So once again… nerf has NOTHING TO DO WITH reverse Archon Twister

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Nobody said it did. It does affect every channeling build though.

Think about this. You lose the channeling buff for a ful lsecond every time:

  1. you move to get within range of enemies
  2. you move to avoid damage like ground based affixes
  3. you get controlled such as knocked back/stunned/teleported/frozen

That is pretty much almost constant. That means you build constantly for defense first and foremost and makes the Invigorating Gemstone mandatory for all wizard channeling builds to prevent controls, which is pretty much any worthwhile build.

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Just wait for PTR. As long as Twisters can be casted at the same time while channeling, Every Twister Build will outperform any other build. With the Vyr’s Archon Nerf this season, i don’t see any changes in the meta for groups on console. Let’s look like WD will perform. maybe this build has chances to be a new thrash killer. With the seasonal buff even necros can be part of groups as they have the best legendary powers with high multipliers (LoD Mages & Poison Nova)

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K i misunderstood N thought u meant that Reverse Archon was a factor in the nerf. But all builds that use MoC are gonna suffer a little. Especially if ur character is built to rely on ur 100% on ur damage reduction. Like i said manual cast Rend ur gonna lose that extra second of DR and if theres spear chuckers, mortars, ect. say good night lol

Energy Twister casts interrupt channeling unless they are the free automatic casts made by Etched Sigil. You can only double up casts on spells such as Explosive Blast that doesn’t interrupt channeling and can be cast simultaneously with other things.
(Edit: I was wrong, see far below post)

I’m actually wondering if even that “free cast” of Etched Sigil has to wait a full second before it happens also. That would be best for Hydra so it got the buff but worse for every other build, and still a bad nerf to usability of channeling spells and items.

Why do they push us so hard into channeling skills and then nerf them so obviously harshly? “Play how we want you to play but don’t play how we want you to play” seems to be the contradictory directive from on high.

OP, if you havent read this, I recommend it… It might give you an insight into what the devs are thinking about and what the future is for D3 when it comes to classes, and sets and such… and it makes sense from their point of view.

https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/23290575/%5Bd3%5D-developer-insights-balancing-class-set-design-1-28-2020

There have been a handful of problematic gameplay styles that have emerged over time, largely due to creative use of snapshotting or taking advantage of the ability to cancel skill animations. This impedes our efforts at overall game balance, and it makes it very difficult for us to change skills or items without overly punishing the whole class when these tactics aren’t used. (We’re looking at you, Bazooka Wizard and Stutter Steppers.)

Our first area of concern will be disabling animation cancellation on certain skills . The Crusader class is the most subject to this (though not alone) and we’ll ensure no class falls behind as a result of losing this “trick.” After we tackle this specific issue, we’ll continue to review and revisit areas of the game where similar mechanics are having a negative impact and act accordingly.

That’s not correct. I density you can cast Channeling Skill AND Twister simultaniously. Has always been since Twisted Sword release with a small difference. @ release we spammed Spectral Blades and Twisters cos DW and ES doesn’t exist. In combo with Shame of Delsere pretty much infinite AP.

That’s impossible because Energy Twister is not like the conjuration skills and Explosive Blast and Diamond Skin that all have the special properties: “does not interrupt casting; can be cast on the move”
It is easy to see that it always drops, even for an instant, the channeling skill and its buffs when you “manually cast” Energy Twister.
Yes, you can merge a manual Energy Twister with an automatic Etched Sigil cast twister to make the larger twister of the rune Raging Storm, but the second twister will stop your channeling and not actually be “completely simultaneous” with the channeled free cast twister.
(Edit: I was wrong, see far below post)

Do you even play wizard, ever?! That’s wizard obvious mechanic number one that you learn the first time you use a channeled skill and try to use any other skill at the same time, which skills interrupt channel or not. It’s most obvious when using Ray of Frost or Disintegrate since the travel delay of Arcane Torrent obscures this unless you are actually paying attention to the character and not the missiles.

  1. I read it.
  2. That’s irrelevant to this thread.

The nerfs to Deathwish/Etched Sigil/Mantle of Channeling were unnecessary to nerf the “Bazooka Wizard” when there are obvious other options to do so, like determining damage dealt on cast rather than on hit, and affected far too many other ways those items are used, even for other classes who use Mantle of Channeling.

They’re human like anybody else, and that means they can make dumb decisions and mistakes.
The reason “2 heads are better than 1” is because the second sees what the first didn’t, not any supposed multiplication of intelligence. Consider us players “the 2nd head” that points out what we see as obvious that the developers missed so they can fix that mistake, if they listen/read.

Yes it’s second main char after monk. And i’m actually unsure if you play PS4 or X1 where this “mechanic” is working. On Switch i don’t know. On PC you are right. This advantage vs. PC we always had. U can easily try if you have PS4 or X1.

Double checked with multiple setups.Can still cast twister without channeling disruption. Easy test.Just don’t used sigil and channel.

is that via the PTR on PC??
if not, then your comment is irrelevant since this set up isn’t live on console until Season 20.

It interrupts channeling(I was wrong, see below post), however brief, to cast the Energy Twister. I play on Nintendo Switch where this is definitely true. It also should be true on PC as well if only going by the wiki information on these 2 pages:
diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Explosive_Blast
diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Energy_Twister
Explosive Blast says “does not interrupt casting” on the right side of the page under the main skill info, but Energy Twister doesn’t say that. You see the same thing on the conjuration skills like Storm Armor/Energy Armor/Ice Armor/Magic Weapon and even the other buffs like Diamond Skin.
Meteor has the same issue where a manual meteor cast stops channeling very briefly just to cast the meteor, which is why it doesn’t say “doesn’t interrupt casting” just like Energy Twister on the Meteor page:
diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Meteor_(Diablo_III)
Energy Twister, if manually cast, always interrupts channeling.

It will be even more obvious on the new patch because of the 1 second loss of the channeling buffs every time you thought it didn’t interrupt before.

You know how you can tell the Energy Twister interrupts channeling for sure? Just watch for you character to animate the twister cast during the channeling. If your channeling animation is switched to a different animation when you cast a twister then you stopped channeling.

I am aware of the pc nerf.I can’t speak for the Nintendo Switch but on Xbox one there is absolutely zero manual cast energy twister animation when channeling. (Tested with Ray of frost,arcane torrent and disintegrate. No sigil.) I have no idea if this will be patched on Xbox one but as of now no interruptions.

P.S. I’m not disagreeing that channeling is getting nerfed.I’m just saying that on my platform twister wizard should remain strong unless there is a patch.Twister wiz has been around for a long while on consoles.

That’s all i want to know. As shadybear said. Channeling and casting of 2 skills is possible on PS4 and X1. Is this intended? NO
Was that reported? Yes years ago.
So the nerf of MoC ES and DW will not hit that hard on Ps4 and X1, if they not patch this bug.

Archaion, assuming you went from PC to Switch, You need to understand, there are issues with switch that did not pick up the other advantages or disadvantages the other consoles have. Sure you guys have the NG problem as much as we do, but at least you don’t have to go through Campaign on non season.

but when it comes to skills, we do have advantages of certain ones on console. like doing two skills for wiz, but not being able to channel two skills at once like the WoTb without it ending.

if a ps4/xb1 player says there I can cast 2 skills at any expanse …

than someone shows you text, technical details or whatever the bible of diablo universe… telling you it is impossible… I can understand since you are the lore master of diablo or the greatest player of the year… we are all open for debate or ideas.

Than the next player shows up n says I can cast 2 skills in ps4/xb1 ok maybe the next player is insane or dun know anything because we have wall of text to show it is impossible.

many months/years from now we might be here debating again about the myths of casting 2 skills.

just IMO if a player plays D3 on PC/XB1/SWITCH seriously & says there is this n that I dun even bother because it is not PS4… if someone says hey I played on ps4 I can cast 2 skills or even 10skills when we can only have 6skills at most. Ok the first thing if I am concern or bother is load up D3 on PS4 to test it myself if I can have 10skills. Plain simple not look at lore master or any1 telling me.

It is like I am telling a PC player they need to pick up NG in GR with my knowledge of D3 experience on PS4 :slight_smile:

have fun in D3

I was gonna make a smarmy remark about why Xbox/PC/Switch doesn’t have clickers and bloaters, or why PC doesn’t have nemesis. But my brain is fried from 6 hours of CASA/Guardian Ad Litem training.

ooh on a side note,
I been accepted into the Local Police Departments Citizen Police Academy. Whoop!!

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