Patch 2.6.8 Balance changes Nerfs/Buffs

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Bassdude-1227

You need the top 10,000 to get a better indication then average them and that is statistics 101.

I already analyzed 21,000 GR clears (era 11 and era 12) in another thread. See:

Solo game balance: Non-Season Era 11 and 12 Data and Analysis

Introduction Here, I present data and its analysis for the final era 11 solo leaderboards (patch 2.6.6) as well as the current era 12 data (patch 2.6.7a/b). Era data is non-season and is used to exclude confounders caused by seasonal buffs. The datasets being analyzed are imperfect in that there are biases in the number of players pushing each class. As an example, demon hunters and witch doctors did not receive any buffs or nerfs in patch 2.6.7; however, it is much easier (i.e. lower GR clea…

[Bassdude-1227]

I am not going to argue with you. You may be right with a large analysis, but still picking the top tier is regardless a small percentage against the whole.

All I care about is what is good for EVERY player overall.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Bassdude-1227

All I care about is what is good for EVERY player overall.

Me too. That is why I advocate for balance and analyze both large and small datasets using multiple methods. There is a reason I got the nickname “table guy” and “charts magee”. There are many misperceptions being propogated as fact that simply are inconsistent with the game data.

You can not please all the players. Some people want to steamroll the toughest content while others prefer to strive for an unobtainable. Personally, this idea of “never nerf” is problematic as creates crazy amounts of power creep.

In 2.6.7, crusaders were even more powerful than in patch 2.6.7a. If Blizzard just decided to buff all classes to that 2.6.7 level, there would still be a class that be highest. Another buff would be needed and then another buff cycle… At some point in the buff cycle, GR 150 would be easy for “low” paragon players. Do you think everyone steam rolling GR 150 solo would be fun for every player?

[Free-1746]

@Salamandra-1698

First of all wall charge was able to clear a 135

At 8k + Paragon, and with hundreds of keys for fishing. Wall-charging is a broken gimmick that, frankly, most Barb players wish was removed.

@Salamandra-1698

seismic slam build is able to clear a 138

At 10k Paragon and with GG gear. It’s one of the hardest builds to put together in terms of gear, and it’s not easy to play; if one thing goes wrong in terms of gear rolls or positioning, you’re dead. Yes, it’s a fun build, but it’s also very demanding in terms of gear, play style, and Paragon, and very few players will crack 130 with the build much less clear 138.

The concern about Rend getting nerfed is far from a lie or exaggeration.

@Salamandra-1698

The way to fix barbarian is, nerf WW 3 GR levels, and improve the 4 piece defensive buff to something like 60-70%, that way players will be able to drop band of might with less paragon and use COE,

Core Zodiac Rend also uses Band of Might + COE and is, for most players, a more reliable and powerful option than the Crimson’s variant. In fact, players who can afford the Crimson’s variant do so thanks to the luxury of inflated main stat. Again–I mean, again, again, again–you don’t understand the build.

The way to fix Barbarians?

Leave them alone. They’re fine.

Focus on buffing other classes.

I don’t know why this is so hard for some of you to understand.

@MicroRNA-1507

OK… let’s consider a different metric for balance. What class has the most GR 125+ clears in non-season for players under paragon 2.3K in the America region?

That isn’t a metric because it dodges the question: What build and class do most people play right now?

Since you love posting redundant questions, let me throw a few your way.

If, say, 80% of players play CLASS X, what precisely does “data” around CLASS X represent? What is the potential of other classes?

Let me answer that for you. For WDs and DHs, it’s already GR 143-140. For Wizards and Necros–which, along with WDs and DHs, aren’t being played much right now–well, you can dig that up I’m sure. Right now, folks are playing Barb and Monk and Crusader, and outside of meta roles, not much else.

What if more classes and builds per class were played? What if instead of 80% of players playing CLASS X, it was only 10% with the other 90% divided between the six other classes and one or two builds per class?

I really don’t want an answer, so I’ll provide one myself: All y’all jonesing for nerfs and worrying about powercreep ( LOL ) would be singing a very different tune.

Question: How do we get that to happen?

Answer: BUFF EVERYTHING ELSE.

@MicroRNA-1507

This is why certain classes need a buff while others need a nerf.

Fixed that for you.

Data and statistics are not the entire story. That narrative, along with the “Let’s nerf things” narrative, needs to stop. Here’s why: What precisely does achieving balance in the game net you?

Go ahead and answer that question. What exact thing do you get when nerfs occur? How does balance give you something and what is that something?

Achieving “balance” doesn’t do anything for you, but it does take enjoyment away from others. What you and a few choice others are doing is glaringly obvious.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Free-1746

If, say, 80% of players play CLASS X, what precisely does “data” around CLASS X represent? What is the potential of other classes?

Let me answer that for you. For WDs and DHs, it’s already GR 143-140. For Wizards and Necros–which, along with WDs and DHs, aren’t being played much right now–well, you can dig that up I’m sure. Right now, folks are playing Barb and Monk and Crusader, and outside of meta roles, not much else.

What if more classes and builds per class were played? What if instead of 80% of players playing CLASS X, it was only 10% with the other 90% divided between the six other classes and one or two builds per class?

I do not know precisely how many players are playing each class and neither do you. You also did not know that answer when you wrote your barb buff proposal.

In the barb buff proposal you used the top 10 clears in 3 regions to claim that barbarians were underperforming and by 4.1 tiers. Specifically, you wrote:“Worldwide average for all classes is 130.8 , which means Barbarians are 4.1 tiers behind the average for other classes”

I have also looked at the top worldwide GR clears too for both era 11 and era 12.

I have used Prokahn’s GR efficiency that corrects (in part) for this. You have claimed that this is valid way to analyze the data.

Both methods yield the same results.

If you claim using data analysis that one class is underperforming, you can not claim using the same analysis that the method is invalid to demonstrate that a class is overpowered.

@Free-1746

What precisely does achieving balance in the game net you?

@Free-1746

What exact thing do you get when nerfs occur? How does balance give you something and what is that something?

If a nerf brings classes into betteer balance, it means that no matter what classs you prefer to play that you will not feel that you are playing an underperforming class. By definition, if one class is overperforming, then 6 classes are underperforming in comparison and you are alienating 6/7 of your playerbase that prefers to play a specific class.

[Kilometer-11340]

@MicroRNA-1507

Agreed. As someone else noted, it is a set where you need to keep an elite alive to do maximal damage.

Worst of all, the buff gone when the elite died. Not even letting you to enjoy the power for more than 10 seconds.

I don’t mind if Firebird is focusing on DoT but the final buff should be more consistent. The ignitation feature sucks so hard for firebird set.

[LocknLoad-1624]

@MicroRNA-1507

OK… let’s consider a different metric for balance. What class has the most GR 125+ clears in non-season for players under paragon 2.3K in the America region? Would it surprise you to learn that 1 class has more of this type of clear than all other classes combined?

Why are you on here trolling again?
So Barbs are good for one season, so what.
Wizard was good for 10 seasons and totally dominated, where
were you then?
I didn’t want Vyr’s nerfed, so why would I want to nerf Rend?
There is way to many nerdy trolls on here with spreadsheets,
and not enough regular Joe’s that just want to have some fun.

[robavatar-2625]

Never all classes were on par , So why schout when its The first time barb And sader do Well. Dont you have them if you complain ? Next patch other class Will outperform So let iT go Omg.

[Free-1746]

@MicroRNA-1507

If a nerf brings classes into betteer balance, it means that no matter what classs you prefer to play that you will not feel that you are playing an underperforming class. By definition, if one class is overperforming, then 6 classes are underperforming in comparison and you are alienating 6/7 of your playerbase that prefers to play a specific class.

Right.

So. Do you know what will achieve that and increase build diversity and not tick off anyone who likes playing any class and not dampen the enjoyment that Barb mains are finally, at long last, enjoying?

Is it:

A. Buy a weed whacker
B. Buff underperforming classes and builds
C. Eat pie
D. Drink a whole bottle of gin

Time’s up. If your goal is, in fact, what you stated, the correct answer is B. End of story.

If you feel the need to slip the word “nerf” in there, your motives aren’t as pure as you claim, because calling for nerfs for a class that has spent years as broken, gimmicky, weak trash is out of line.

[Basaz-2133]

I’ve never been a fan of nerfing. What 0.01% of players are doing well affects everyone else and I don’t think that’s the way to go.

[partci-2360]

So… I thought Witch Doctors are in the direst need of buffing. I mean - I see Demon Hunters all the time and it is impossible to catch them with WD, except if you are not running after them with the Chicken Build.

The biggest problem with WD that I see is, they do not have enough spread damage, you need to set up everything and in groups often you just can’t, because until you set it up, the screen is cleared and there’s nothing for you to do, except running after the group and collecting stuff. Even in solo this set up, combined with the narrow targeting (Zunimassa Set), is often problematic in areas with tons of mobs.

I am a casual player, but from my experience, those are the conclusions I came to.

Also about the buffing process: you just can’t buff some things with 100%/500%/1000% and not touch other stuff. For months. Years. At least give small buffs to some stuff all the time, especially when there’s stuff out there that is obviously overbuffed.

[Oblivion-1520]

@Kindran-11838

2 piece) Dealing [Fire damage] causes the enemy to take 1000% damage as Fire per second for 3 seconds. This effect can be repeated a second and third time by different skills. If an enemy is burning due to three different skills simultaneously, the enemy will Ignite, dealing 3000% damage per second until they die

Get rid of the “three different skills”, it should take only one fire skill to ignite an enemy. Leave the skill juggling to the Tal Rasha set.

[Dardanian-2134]

You are just pathetic dude… You sleep and wake up just to write in d3 forums and ask for barb nerfs. For a class that has been awful in both solo and party terms like for ever. Please get a life.

[Thanagor-2520]

id like them to buff normal leapquake. Its like 10+ GRs weaker than rend build and the new MotE SS Permafrost isnt really the playstyle i like. Maybe buff Blade of the Tribes or something idk

[sildarine-2903]

I think barbarian and crusader is seen overpowered since there are lots of gr150 in leaderboard. But dont forget that it iş also due to the seasonal theme. So if a balance is needed than do not nerf barbarian or crusader but buff other classes.

[Kirottu-2131]

Why does it have to keep that stupid gimmicky ignite mechanic? The fact that currently Firebird requires igniting and dragging a burning elite is the main reason people hate Firebird. I’m OK the set being unique in some way but it shouldn’t be gimmicky.

As Oblivion stated, at least leave the skill juggling to Tal-Rasha.

[Mlok-2413]

Barbs are fine now.

But if Blizzard decides to nerf Barb, than I will suggest:

• focus on AD: disable AD on HC rend - it will help servers too (and maybe together buff Lamentation to 200% to not overnerf Barb)
• focus on nerfing FoT

[StuRedman-2654]

@ShadowDragon-17769

• Nerf crusaders
• Nerf barbarians

We don’t need troll posts like this.
Introduce good new sets for the classes that are lacking them currently (DH, WD, Necro), and fine.

[Rotbone-11529]

There has never been a nerf to a build or item from one patch to another. They have only ever nerfed unintended exploits, not intended power implementations. Or something on a ptr has been nerfed before going live. Use your time to intelligently request power increases or changes that benefit underpowered classes/builds. Otherwise this thread is a waste of space.

[Bassdude-1227]

@Free-1746

Is it:

A. Buy a weed whacker
B. Buff underperforming classes and builds
C. Eat pie
D. Drink a whole bottle of gin

Quickly because that was quite funny.
I was tempted to say D, then play Hardcore, it will be a very short game.

Back to topic.
Buff under-performing classes similarly makes sense.