Patch 2.6.8 Balance changes Nerfs/Buffs

People are using so called “hard casts” of rend. “Hard casts” of rend can proc area damage leading to more DPS (and unfortunately more server lag) especially in high density.

The problem with hard casts of rend is that it makes the build playstyle more clunky. With “hard casts”, you can get a few extra GRs out of your top end potential.

How does it work and when should you cast the Rend manually?

I am not sure precisely what you mean.

By pushing the rend button, rend procs area damage. For rend applied by Ambo, these Ambo-rends do not proc area damage.

In density, it makes sense to push the rend button. Be careful as usually (2 button pushes, sometime 3 if you are super speedy) can be done without losing other buffs due to whirldwinding/waste set bonus.


Ok, didn’t know that Ambo Rend doesn’t trigger the Area Damage. So if I am dealing with elite or boss, manual rend is better?

It follows the old rule “procs don’t proc procs”.


Manually pushing rend disrupts whirlwind which is needed for the waste set bonus. So in density, it often is manually cast rend twice, ww, and repeat (while keeping up cooldown skills such as Wrath of the Beserker). This cycle may need to be less frequent in terms of the manual rends as ww also is a major source of healing. More details are provided here:

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When DH gets new set and possibly adjustment to old sets, I must again request a toughness and slight dmg buff for the Marauder set. During RORG season it was very enjoyable to play M6 because you could use Visage Of Gunes, that way it became more on par with S6.


It’s actually very easy. Check what the best clear on the ptr is, add at least 5 levels, maybe 6-7 if the guy is from EU and lag matters (+ 1/2 levels per non optimal item, like patator wasn’t using a flavor of time on the ptr), and you’re already looking at some proper live values.
You just need to realise that NEVER, a clear on the ptr on a build that wasn’t changed stood as the absolute best a build could do. That’s why when some people said “oh yeah, barb’s 140 clear is the highest it can go, yeyeye”, I was like “no, it’ll do at least 145”.
You too can be considered an expert if you follow this very simple trick.


You and I both could do that simple analysis; however, that logical deduction escaped the ability of the majority of posters at the time, including some who are held with esteem in terms of their game knowledge.

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Manual rend is better when you are in a thick cloud of mobs and have a lot of area damage. Then they will proc damage on each other.

Only do this in single player however. In multiplayer with GR110+ are damage will lag the game badly. Therefore you should have zero ad in multiplayer (not on rear, and not in paragon), or you will be kicked.

If Blizzard decides to nerf barbs because of their formula, it might makes sense for them to have it so hard cast rends no longer proc area damage. Therefore, barbs would be more easily accepted into >110 GR parties as damage dealers. If this drops barbs power too much according to Blizzard targets, I would then encourage them to buff lamentation belt to compensate.

There has been concern about how a barb nerf would effect low paragon players in particular. Low paragon player are less likely to hard cast rend. Therefore, this nerf would not affect any low paragon player that falls into this category. It would only affect those who do hard cast rend (more likey to be high paragon players).

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They should simply fix the stupid lag bug.


While nerfing rend by removing AD procs on manual cast would be a decent way to nerf the build, it wouldn’t be a good way to go about it imo, because it would be very confusing. This would be a very arbitrary change to a skill “well, it just doesn’t proc AD.” “why ? Because we said so”. It’s a bit different than nerfing items, because items have a clear definition, we see what an item does. For a new player, it’s pretty straightforward: Lamentation = 150% dmg (or 100 if nerfed, whatever). But a new player will never know that rend doesn’t proc AD. That’s not good game design IMO. And overall, I believe Blizzard has followed good game design rules to make their game, barring the ridiculously inflated numbers.

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Have you seen the whirlwind/rend thread in the barbarian forum (or even this thread)? The mechanics of ambo-applied rend and manually cast rend have already confused a ton of people and to make things even ore complicated they can overwrite each other.

The problem with area damage is that is exceptionally heavy computationally. It is inherent in how that property works and the number of calculations required in high density.

I think that a major determinant in having Ambo apply rend (and not proc AD) was to reduce server lag. Area damage contributed greatly to server issues cause by whirlwind as well as other builds in the past.

Yes, I keep hearing that story. It does not get more true by repeating. Explain why

  • Lag kicks in at a certain difficulty level. Calculations don’t take longer with different numbers
  • Lag even when everybody has AD out
  • I definitely have AD on zero. No items, no Paragon, zero in sheet. Today I whirlwinded into a huge mob cloud in battlefields, all other party members were way behind in empty area. And - laaaag.

Actually they do. A computer will take a certain amount of time to calculate 7 x 9. It will take longer for it to calculate 7777 x 9999. You can even think about this in terms of bits.

To represent the number 7, it takes three bits, while 7777 takes 13 bits.

Besides area damage, there are other things that can lag the game.

Does this mean that you feel that crusaders that have already had 7 players clear GR 150 in non-season should be nerfed as this crusader build is clearly overpowered?


During the 2008 Automotive recession, in order to prevent layoff, our company made decision to reduce salary by 20%, until the recession is over. To compensate, 4 day week (from 5) was implemented. WIth that, it didn’t feel quite as bad.

The point I am making is, if you are going to nerf a builds from a class, you need to buff other build(s) to compensate. Look at Necro & WIz, FAR less people play them this season.

Until you buff other builds, DO NOT NERF the top build of a class!


There is another factor that contributes to the drop in the number of wizard and necro players. Some players just want to play the strongest class. For those players in this season, it makes sense to play two classes that both can clear GR 150, a feat that neither wizards or necromancers could ever accomplish in season (or non-seasons for that matter).

This is why it is so important to have a well-balanced game. If the power of necromancers and wizards were similar to barbs and crusaders, then more people would be playing necromancers and wizards.

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“well, it just doesn’t proc AD.”

I was thinking it would better to change Ambo’s Pride to this:

Attacking with Whirlwind also applies Rend, and the total damage of Rend applied by whirlwind is dealt over 1 second.

You can still hardcast rend, and it will still proc AD, but there’s no point because it won’t get the buff from Ambo’s. The result is that WotW is still just as powerful for everybody except those pushing 140+, and Barbs still have our version of the speed meta.

I mean, let’s face it. Hardcast rend and AD is the only reason they overturned it in the first place. Nobody was using AD on the PTR.


I agree, the best solution if Bliz. will decide to nerf Barb.

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