Thanks for letting us know. I realize that it is somewhat difficult to balance the game. Unfortunately, I suspect that the PTR gives highly biased data as few people are willing to push their favorite class that received a buff out of fear of being nerfed. Poor data can hide a build’s true potential.
That’s actually very good!!! Good work!!
I think the nerf did effect the Blessed Ground rune build of Heaven’s Fury. Seems about 7-8 GR’s less now with that build. However the Pig Sticker version is performing higher still, not the least of which is due to animation canceling with force move (stutter step).
I’d rather see that aspect addressed rather than further general nerfs that hurt other ways that are fun to play the set.
Why is this problematic when doing those things is already possible in groups as long as you are willing to play other classes? Don’t you want DH (and WD) to be as capable rather than have to roll a meta class to build paragon/gem levels?
Even with the strength of AoV, most of what I’ve seen is people are still going to farm on Barb for a good while, before switching to crusader. There’s a heck of a lot of aspects of balance you are throwing out the window, to cry foul because players who want to main crusader can do so now without being bound by barb/monk/necro/wiz.
Just for reference, note that there are currently (11/23/19) 92 people who have cleared 140 or above in this Era with Crusader, and 7 people who have cleared 140 or above with every other class, combined…
Based on our previous evaluation of Crusaders being 4-7 GRs above most classes and looking at the leaderboards, this falls in line with what we expected.
The, less the 100 people with over 8000+ Paragon (In most cases) for GR 140, is as we’ve said before an extremely low percentage of the player base.
We’ll revisit the balance for future patches and seasons.
Thanks for new content!
enjoying new season despite some partying issues
Even so please do a bugfix patch. The barb bug which eliminates all seasonal buff while Nerve of Steel is triggered is really annoying since be barb tends to activates it a lot being a melee class.
Thanks for the reply. And thanks, too, for being so responsive to so many folks over the past few days.
I wanted to get back to you, in particular, on the subject of balance. I know that a blog post on the subject is forthcoming, and I wanted to raise a few questions that, hopefully, will be answered when that posting appears.
First, let’s talk about this:
You know that it’s not the particular point of GR 140 that I was drawing attention to, and more the overall question of relative class power, right?
I mean, the number could be different: there are currently 366 people who have cleared 135 or above with Crusader (some with paragon below 4000), while 109 players have cleared that mark with every other class, together. Or, look at the “1000th place” mark: for Crusader, the 1000th highest clear is GR 130. Barb is not too far behind, at 125 (equal to the rank 2000 Crusader), but for poor Necro, it’s 106. In fact, only 12 Necros, worldwide, would make it onto the top 1000 Crusader clears (and only 37 would make it onto the top 2000).
On one level, I guess this just “is what it is”. There have always been stronger and weaker classes and builds, and those change over time as new items are added and old items are adjusted. But on another level, people seem to find it awfully frustrating when their favorite class or build ends up on the scrap heap.
So, my first question is: are you guys ultimately aiming at finding some kind of stable balance between different classes and builds, or do you envision that balance continuously fluctuating, into the indefinite future? If the balance is meant to continue changing, long-term, how do you plan to maintain that approach after the launch of D4, which I certainly assume will consume some, many, or all of the resources currently dedicated to D3?
Next: what, exactly, is the level of balance you’re aiming for (whether this is meant to be permanent or temporary)? A 5 GR spread between rank 1 clears between classes? Or a 5 GR spread between rank 1000 clears between classes? How about between different sets/builds within the same class? Would a 10 GR gap between clears with WW and clears with IK fit within your parameters, or would you be looking to tighten that?
Finally, I know that the coming blog post is stated to be focused on solo class balance. But: the particular abilities of solo builds obviously effect their play in groups. For instance, because of the particular way they deal damage, various iterations of Star Pact Wizard have, for some time now, been the go-to for clearing density in group GRs, while Necros have generally dominated as Rift Guardian Killers.
So: how do you plan to balance, in the future, between group and solo play?
In closing, thanks again for your recent presence on these forums, it is much appreciated. And thanks, too @Nevalistis for your ongoing work in keeping us all enlightened… I’ll look forward to gaining some clarity in the (hopefully) near future!
Many solo causal players like me need a build like AoV crusader to upgrade gem lvl and farm exp faster. Please don’t nerf AoV. Nerfing will harm Crus oriented players like me because I invested a lot of time loot and augment AoV set already. If you really need to nerf, you can nerf Bracer of Fury instead. Please keep AoV 2pc as it is.
Plus, the most rational way of setting balance is to buff other abandoned build (instead of nerfing the good build). The first thing is Chantodo should be back as it was. There was no reason that Chantodo Wiz should be nerfed. In addition, there are A LOT OF ABANDONED build such as Roland Shield Bash, Strafe DH, LTK Monk, Garg WD, etc.
Don’t waste time and resource to think about nerfing the current build, but put more resource to make several abandoned build viable.
The main reason is, a lot of high paragon players don’t play solo necro anymore. If they push high, necro is still stronger than WD and DH.
Don’t forget that Crusaders are very powerful not only because the new set is a little over-tuned, but also because everyone is using animation canceling to cast Heaven’s Fury much faster than intended.
Fixing the animation canceling trick would already nerf the build significantly, removing the need to nerf the set to oblivion.
Thanks a bunch for the reminder. We’ll be able to adjust balance in the upcoming Patch 2.6.8.
P.S. we didn’t forget
Thanks, and sorry for necroing this thread, didn’t see it was already 2 weeks old lol
Thanks Vael for requesting NERFs to a FUN BUILDS. Have you not looked at HISTORY, everytime a NERF occurs a build that was fun gets NERF IE Wiz Chantoto and actual 0 players play it anymore and anybody that was gearing it has completely wasted time. I feel sorry for people that gear in NS only to have their builds CRUSH by silly requests like this. Matthew please dont remotely touch Crusaders there perfectly fine and for the first time in a VERY LONG time actually fun to play and have a place in META. Leave them ALONE
Not asking to nerf a build but to fix a bug while possibly not touch the set itself if the bug fix is sufficient enough to make the build back in line with others.
If you read my message well, it was only meant this way : I wanted to avoid the devs to overnerf the set because they forgot that animation cancelling is the main culprit here. Matthew answered me that they didn’t forget and will balance it well next patch.
Having to animation cancel with mousewheel force move while button maching spam heaven’s fury or even worse, use an optimized macro to do so to avoid hurting your finger if you do that many hours a day cannot be intended gameplay any way you view it.
If after this fix and without any change to the set crusaders are still able to do 143-145’s in NS, everything’s perfectly fine for me.
Your asking to NERF IT
A style of gameplay not FORCED on you but its gets you more DPS. Thats not Gamebreaking thats call FUN and EFFICIENT. Dont like it dont do it. Dont ask for some kind of gameplay mechanic change thats NERFS something FUN.
The use of 3rd Party Software as far as im aware is in Breach of TOS so doing that is just Risking your Account so Dont Do IT.
But it wont cause its a NERF to how fast you can cast your PRIMARY Damage Skill. You also based on your Profile dont even have a 70 Crusader so why does this bother you people pushing and Enjoying this BUILD.
#DEVS IGNORE , Do not MOD or try bring back in line this set like you did Wizards and RIP Crusaders
Charge barb animation cancelling was fixed some time ago, there’s no reason this shouldn’t be the case for crusaders.
My post is more or less a convoluted way of asking not to nerf the set at all or too much if fixing this BUG (it IS a BUG) already “nerf” the build enough.
Now you clearly don’t care at all and want absolutely no change to the current state of crusaders and there’s also obviously absolutely no way for you to think otherwise.
So let’s have faith in the devs decision.
Good day sir, and may your antipathetic way of writing not affect your life too much.
Please stop Posting #NERF X Build . Players are currently ENJOYING the Crusader. Theres is ZERO Reason to change it and make it LESS fun.
Your time would be better spent in determining the best way to reduce the power of the AoV build. The target for well-geared 10K paragon players is GR141. This has implications for AoV whose fate has already been decided. See the post linked below: