Well i’m surprised the team heard the majority for barbs and crusaders. it’s nice to see rather then them flat ignore it. hope they stay this path instead of just in general killing specs.
Look’s like i’ll dabble a bit in season 19 mostly barb and maybe finally try necro bought it but never tried heh. thanks for all the work/fighting you did Nevalistis and others .
Seems fine to me having the sader being the leader. Don’t see why people fuss about it considering there’s another class that has had to top spot for multiple seasons and in NS alike. I for one like the change of scenery.
Your point of view is problematic. If build is stronger it does not only affect one’s ability to push with it solo but it also affects ability to do other things with it. For example many players are using it to farm EXP/Gear/Bloodshards in GR 120. It is used as RGK in groups. Majority of the time it is used in GROUPS.
So I don’t agree with “extremely low percentage of player base” part.
This is group oriented game… I hope you don’t forget that.
That miss of 4-7 GRs HIT some of us really hard. And I could see it comming.
If there are no new set dungeons can we get rid of the others? Please? At least as far as the season goes, and maybe also the achievements.
That would be very nice, Matthew! I would love to read whether you have plans for certain caps and/or tuning of the paragon system.
If the D3 team is reading these forums it’s easy to notice that a MAJOR PORTION of the player base doesn’t want an infinite experience system a la paragon to return in Diablo 4. Imagine all these people that would return to D3 if you make the required changes for paragon and its interference with the competition. I wrote many times on this particular topic in the old forums:
Also, do you have plans to improve the Challenge Rifts mode? We gave a lot of feedback for it back when it launched (it’s an easy fix to at least add a tier progression in it):
Thank you and keep up the good work in D3!
Thanks for letting us know. I realize that it is somewhat difficult to balance the game. Unfortunately, I suspect that the PTR gives highly biased data as few people are willing to push their favorite class that received a buff out of fear of being nerfed. Poor data can hide a build’s true potential.
That’s actually very good!!! Good work!!
I think the nerf did effect the Blessed Ground rune build of Heaven’s Fury. Seems about 7-8 GR’s less now with that build. However the Pig Sticker version is performing higher still, not the least of which is due to animation canceling with force move (stutter step).
I’d rather see that aspect addressed rather than further general nerfs that hurt other ways that are fun to play the set.
Why is this problematic when doing those things is already possible in groups as long as you are willing to play other classes? Don’t you want DH (and WD) to be as capable rather than have to roll a meta class to build paragon/gem levels?
Even with the strength of AoV, most of what I’ve seen is people are still going to farm on Barb for a good while, before switching to crusader. There’s a heck of a lot of aspects of balance you are throwing out the window, to cry foul because players who want to main crusader can do so now without being bound by barb/monk/necro/wiz.
Just for reference, note that there are currently (11/23/19) 92 people who have cleared 140 or above in this Era with Crusader, and 7 people who have cleared 140 or above with every other class, combined…
Hey Rage!
Based on our previous evaluation of Crusaders being 4-7 GRs above most classes and looking at the leaderboards, this falls in line with what we expected.
The, less the 100 people with over 8000+ Paragon (In most cases) for GR 140, is as we’ve said before an extremely low percentage of the player base.
We’ll revisit the balance for future patches and seasons.
Thanks again
Thanks for new content!
enjoying new season despite some partying issues
Even so please do a bugfix patch. The barb bug which eliminates all seasonal buff while Nerve of Steel is triggered is really annoying since be barb tends to activates it a lot being a melee class.
Hey MC,
Thanks for the reply. And thanks, too, for being so responsive to so many folks over the past few days.
I wanted to get back to you, in particular, on the subject of balance. I know that a blog post on the subject is forthcoming, and I wanted to raise a few questions that, hopefully, will be answered when that posting appears.
First, let’s talk about this:
You know that it’s not the particular point of GR 140 that I was drawing attention to, and more the overall question of relative class power, right?
I mean, the number could be different: there are currently 366 people who have cleared 135 or above with Crusader (some with paragon below 4000), while 109 players have cleared that mark with every other class, together. Or, look at the “1000th place” mark: for Crusader, the 1000th highest clear is GR 130. Barb is not too far behind, at 125 (equal to the rank 2000 Crusader), but for poor Necro, it’s 106. In fact, only 12 Necros, worldwide, would make it onto the top 1000 Crusader clears (and only 37 would make it onto the top 2000).
On one level, I guess this just “is what it is”. There have always been stronger and weaker classes and builds, and those change over time as new items are added and old items are adjusted. But on another level, people seem to find it awfully frustrating when their favorite class or build ends up on the scrap heap.
So, my first question is: are you guys ultimately aiming at finding some kind of stable balance between different classes and builds, or do you envision that balance continuously fluctuating, into the indefinite future? If the balance is meant to continue changing, long-term, how do you plan to maintain that approach after the launch of D4, which I certainly assume will consume some, many, or all of the resources currently dedicated to D3?
Next: what, exactly, is the level of balance you’re aiming for (whether this is meant to be permanent or temporary)? A 5 GR spread between rank 1 clears between classes? Or a 5 GR spread between rank 1000 clears between classes? How about between different sets/builds within the same class? Would a 10 GR gap between clears with WW and clears with IK fit within your parameters, or would you be looking to tighten that?
Finally, I know that the coming blog post is stated to be focused on solo class balance. But: the particular abilities of solo builds obviously effect their play in groups. For instance, because of the particular way they deal damage, various iterations of Star Pact Wizard have, for some time now, been the go-to for clearing density in group GRs, while Necros have generally dominated as Rift Guardian Killers.
So: how do you plan to balance, in the future, between group and solo play?
In closing, thanks again for your recent presence on these forums, it is much appreciated. And thanks, too @Nevalistis for your ongoing work in keeping us all enlightened… I’ll look forward to gaining some clarity in the (hopefully) near future!
Don’t forget that Crusaders are very powerful not only because the new set is a little over-tuned, but also because everyone is using animation canceling to cast Heaven’s Fury much faster than intended.
Fixing the animation canceling trick would already nerf the build significantly, removing the need to nerf the set to oblivion.
Hey Vael,
Thanks a bunch for the reminder. We’ll be able to adjust balance in the upcoming Patch 2.6.8.
P.S. we didn’t forget 
Thanks, and sorry for necroing this thread, didn’t see it was already 2 weeks old lol 
Thanks Vael for requesting NERFs to a FUN BUILDS. Have you not looked at HISTORY, everytime a NERF occurs a build that was fun gets NERF IE Wiz Chantoto and actual 0 players play it anymore and anybody that was gearing it has completely wasted time. I feel sorry for people that gear in NS only to have their builds CRUSH by silly requests like this. Matthew please dont remotely touch Crusaders there perfectly fine and for the first time in a VERY LONG time actually fun to play and have a place in META. Leave them ALONE
Not asking to nerf a build but to fix a bug while possibly not touch the set itself if the bug fix is sufficient enough to make the build back in line with others.
If you read my message well, it was only meant this way : I wanted to avoid the devs to overnerf the set because they forgot that animation cancelling is the main culprit here. Matthew answered me that they didn’t forget and will balance it well next patch.
Having to animation cancel with mousewheel force move while button maching spam heaven’s fury or even worse, use an optimized macro to do so to avoid hurting your finger if you do that many hours a day cannot be intended gameplay any way you view it.
If after this fix and without any change to the set crusaders are still able to do 143-145’s in NS, everything’s perfectly fine for me.
Your asking to NERF IT
A style of gameplay not FORCED on you but its gets you more DPS. Thats not Gamebreaking thats call FUN and EFFICIENT. Dont like it dont do it. Dont ask for some kind of gameplay mechanic change thats NERFS something FUN.
The use of 3rd Party Software as far as im aware is in Breach of TOS so doing that is just Risking your Account so Dont Do IT.
But it wont cause its a NERF to how fast you can cast your PRIMARY Damage Skill. You also based on your Profile dont even have a 70 Crusader so why does this bother you people pushing and Enjoying this BUILD.
#DEVS IGNORE , Do not MOD or try bring back in line this set like you did Wizards and RIP Crusaders