The oddest thing I find about the DH is that the standard set up on most builds is to equip a weapon + off hand that buffs a certain skill. This works well as it allows Dawn to go in the cube… Vengeance gives a lot of benefits.
However, M6 is a bit different in that Bombardier’s Rucksack is needed too. When Dawn is added, it doesn’t allow for the usual weapon + offhand that buffs a certain skill. If they really want CA to have a matching offhand, they should really think about moving the bombardier’s affix onto M6 set bonuses… but that would mess with other builds (say zDH which benefits from the current rucksack).
Therefore, it’s probably best to leave CA as being buffed by a single item, namely Manticore, so that:
a) we can have more ease with creating competitive builds, and
b) allows for more interesting combinations with items (such as the single item that specifically buffs Hungering Arrow allowing for historically underused items like Fortress Ballista to be considered).
I think it depends on how they would change it. If they remove the bombardier’s affix into the 2 piece set bonus, we could go for GoD3M2 or UE3M2. We would have to sacrifice Aquila Cuirass for those hybrid builds, but i think zDH would be still fine.
They really didn’t think this through or they wanted to make Marauder’s a CA-only build. They are forcing you to have an item with a completely useless multiplier if you’re using any other skill besides CA.
The buff to CA should either go to the Manticore, as many pointed out, or they should move the extra sentries affix to the set. The issue with the last option is that legacy quivers would give you 7 sentries instead of 5.
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Unless they retroactively change Rucksack of course… not the first time they’ve done that to a legendary item. But I’d prefer for them to keep the Rucksack as is with an addition to the leg affix to also reduce the sentry cooldown time or get rid of it. Sentry on cooldown when moving to a new level is a problem with the M6 playstyle they’ve yet to address.
Buff Manticore’s affix range instead and we might even have a fun Nats Cluster Bomb option too.
That’ll put M6 and CA in a good spot overall for the next patch.
They can work on Chakram and EA in future patches.
You can wear the rucksack and not worry about dawn. Even if you’d go for something like that, RoV is so bad (unfortunately) that not even hellcat with anathema saves it. The multiplier on nats is just not nearly enough.
While I understand where many are coming from with regards to cluster on rucksack, remember that M6 was primarily created to run with cluster arrow after the first rework. The other skills were just “fluff” if you wanted to run something different, much like chakram/EA with UE or…well…anything with nats that isn’t RF or FoK.
To run anything different on most of the sets would just require buffs to their respective legendary’s to make it work. In M6’s case, even if you wanted to run EA or chakram or impale, you’d still have to run rucksack anyways because of the 100% sentry damage bonus. This means you’re still pigeon hold with rucksack regardless and it’s pretty much part of the package/set.
The good news is that they even added a cluster arrow buff. Now you have 2 viable options using 2 different skills/styles to play/push with on a single set. Very few sets in the game currently can do that.
If anything, my gripe is that M6 requires so much to be functional in the form of the quiver, the zoey’s belt, and the custom engineering passive. Not a lot of wiggle room in that regard.
With that said, this patch wasn’t meant to be a “DH” patch, it was meant to give us something else to do besides GoD6 after 17 months of it being the dominant build for DH. I’d hardly call moving N6/M4 functionality that was originally M6 to begin with, back to M6 a DH set rework. This patch was for WD’s, I’m sure we’ll get our creative stuff down the road when we become the focus.
This is the truth. It really doesn’t matter whether Cluster Arrow’s increased damage comes from the Rucksack or Manticore. You are wearing Rucksack no matter what. It is worth about 3x damage. It can’t be beat by any universal item. (Dawn, Odyssey, Yang’s etc).
So if there ever comes a day when they buff EA/Chakram, their respective legendary items will automatically be cubed and wielded in the main-hand, paired with Rucksack in M6 setups.
The other issue I have is that we now have to hope the rucksack gets good sentry AND CA rolls.
May not be a big issue for those that play heaps but as a relatively casual player it’s gonna be a pain. I play both Seasons and NS… seasons for the theme, transmogs and try to focus on finding ancient pieces of gear I don’t have on my NS set up as yet.
This is my NS GoD setup:
I’ve been working on this one since GoD came out and have only just gotten ancient shoulders and helm this season. For me, NS is a long haul game and I really hate the idea of spending multiple seasons in order to get a high rolled Rucksack with the right stats.
It’ll be severely gimped without vengeance up… my idea was to leverage off Seethe and cube Visage of Gunnes for the DR too. My set up wasn’t going to have the Nats ring either so that I could fit in FnR and Squirts. As you said, Nats is severely gimped damage wise so one has got to squeeze as much of it as possible out of other gear.
If UE supported CA, I wouldn’t have considered Nats due to the RoV mechanics… but UE doesn’t so here I am theorycrafting with Nats which isn’t all too satisfying.
I think it’s the other way around. Those who play quite a bit, are more likely to push towards the top of the leaderboards, and therefore those rolls matter a little more.
For a casual player, they’re less important because the range of the rolls aren’t that bad. betwen 75 - 100 for sentry and 150 - 200 for cluster arrow isn’t terrible, and a non-ancient middle of the road rolls rucksack will be more than enough to achieve a personal best for most players that don’t blast daily. It’s not like ninth cirri where the range is 450 to 600 with 3 affixes you hope to roll on it as well. Now that was terrible. Hell, I settled for a non-ancient good rolled ninth cirri, but I also realized that getting an ancient quiver isn’t going to change the outcome of any personal best clears. Getting a decent rolled non-ancient rucksack won’t be too hard.
Understood. Just saying that rucksack will yield more damage than the dawn would, eventhough you ideally want both.
Thing with nats is that because it’s a general multiplier on the 6pc, it’s never going to be competitive with “free formed” builds. It’s pretty much like this with the other classes as well. The only thing that works with nats are extreme multipliers that just so happen to not work with other sets (FoK, RF) and even these aren’t strong currently.
They really need to give nats it’s identity as a RoV set back IMO
Ah. Thanks for the heads up. I’ll definitely fix that.
That’s a fair point. I’m coming at the situation from the point of view that those who play quite a bit are more than likely to get one with good rolls on both affixes. As a casual, I’d be wanting a well rolled rucksack to compensate for my lack of paragons.
I suppose there’s arguments for either side.
Yeah, if I was to choose, given the current state of items, I’d choose the Rucksack too. My previous idea was to make the build a primarily Cluster Bomb one. Grenades and Anathema is there just to fit in thematically and Grenades was simply to proc FnR. I’d be firing CA more than grenades but I may now need to throw more grenades to keep the hatred up.
Use of RoV as a nuking skill was one I always liked too though I do like the idea of a general damage set existing for each class as as it does allow for some interesting ideas to be created. I also means anyone with only vanilla won’t be forced to only play what ever skill the vanilla sets only support like what has happened with Innas.
Anyway, hopefully Nats gets some of that nuking gameplay back whilst still supporting RF.
It doesn’t matter but you’re “wasting” an affix on it because it’s not a CA-only quiver. Otherwise the whole Marauder set should be centered around CA, which it’s not.
Ideally, you should have both the 2 extra sentries and the +%Sentry Dmg as a legendary affix (like it is with HPS, Sin Seekers, Emimei’s Duffel, The Ninth Cirri Satchel, Augustine’s Panacea and Dead Man’s Legacy), so it can be cubed and used on any build using Marauder’s.
Also, ideally, CA should have a quiver of its own, like all the examples above. Since this is not happening any time soon, they should move any CA damage to the Manticore and leave Bombardier’s Rucksack skill agnostic.
But it is designed around CA, similar with hellcat. The original “rework” from auto-fire M6 basically stated it was a cluster arrow focused set, much like UE6 is a multishot focused set. The other skills are simply fluff if you wanted to play around with such, but were not the intended focus as of now.
I agree with this. It wouldn’t change anything because the multipliers for the other skills are far too weak, but it still would allow some gear flexibility if one chooses to.
Buffing the manticore would have been preferred/ideal, but all in all, CA being on the quiver is not a big deal.
Sure, I would’ve love buffs to other skills, as well as my favorite set (UE6), but considering that this wasn’t meant to be a DH focused patch, and we now have 2 very competitive skills to use with M6 (something that doesn’t exist this close in any other class) with multiple ways to build around both MS and CA, the pros far outweigh the cons. The devs listened to a lot of our feedback.
I’m kind of surprised to see more nitpicking than praise for these changes. They did a good job. It’s ok to give them props every once in a while, even if some things we may personally want (for me, it’s UE) didn’t get any love.
Also, messed around with fire chemical burn impale, and did better with that solo than cold overpenetration. Took rank 1 with ease on S6 LB. Looking to put up a video on it and why it works as well as it does for season.
