Nerf Thread on General

“Or anyone else”
Kinda funny, as I’ve been holding all charge WR season and NS since season 9. Only 2 people were able to tie me on charge, and there aren’t into D3 anymore, and the skill gap between us 3 and anyone else (on that specific build) is actually huge. I did a 132 on wood with worst mobs on patch 2.6.5, without FoT and morticks, this clear would have stayed R1 for a year even on 2.6.6.
And this is exactly what I was talking about earlier in this topic, on charge, hota, and even EQ, people that main this build can make an insane difference versus anyone, even the bests. WW/Rend, which is actually overpowered versus any barb build, can’t have this intense skill gap, because you are limited by flip DR and lags.

See what a good Era 12 Development Team compared to Era11 can do, they can make Diablo III way more funner! Thanks for pointing that out. :nerd_face:
Face it You gatta"Spin To Win" in this marvelous game. :sunglasses:
:peace_symbol:

Same development team as far as I know.

I couldn’t say either, just being one of Micro’s “Rabble-Rousers”, but they did a mighty fine Job don’t you think? You don’t have to answer that I am just being disingenuous.
Maybe they will do even better this next time around and surprise everyone and make everybody Happy! :partying_face: :fireworks: :confetti_ball:
:yin_yang:

For clarity, my comment about demagoguery was not directed towards you. Also, I think that you may misunderstand the most common definition of a demagogue.

Unless I’ve missed it, I’ve never see you post about specific ideas to buff items/sets, rather, you’re all about nerfing.
Where were you over 6 months ago… and i mean, 1 - 4 years ago, when barbs were feather dusters. Where your barb would get 1 shotted against the siegebreaker assault beast, where you had to be close to 1.5k - 2K paragon to comfortably beat Malthael in torment 13 on your own, when you can’t play with mates casually as barb because it’s damage was pitiful, and the only time clan mates ever wanted you to play is as zBarb?
I’ve NEVER seen you or the nerf squad ask for nerfs against other outlying classes, like Wizards which were one top of the game FOR YEARS. I never saw you campaign to have Barbs buffed. You just seemed to appear at some point in the 2nd half of 2019 (from what i saw).
Yet barbs and crusaders finally get a buff, and BAM, the nerf crew are all over it.


I try to look at the intention behind what people say in person, or in this case, what people write, and I still see the agenda through things like:

  • what was your purpose creating posts with an underlying theme of a classes performance such as congratulating a Chinese player that will never read the the US forum?

-You spend what seems to be a massive amount of time, creating data analyses and replying to threats. But you’re not using this data to advocate for buffs for certain items pertaining to different classes, no, you target barbs and crusaders. If you have confidence in the Dev’s ability to balance, like you’ve mentioned many times prior to patch 2.6.7a, then let them handle it.

This is how you appear to outsiders/casuals that read the forums.


quote=“MicroRNA-1507, post:221, topic:11037”]
Two simple questions for you:

Should crusaders that have 8 solo non-season clears at GR 150 be nerfed?

Given past history and the game producer’s posts, do you think AoV crusaders will be nerfed in patch 2.6.8?
[/quote]

  1. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest, bring other classes up to scratch.
  2. Quite possibly, though he did mention it was ‘something to look at’. But even a barb nerf, with only less than handful of outliers isn’t much to go on. I feel like you’re might be grasping at straws on some of Matt’s statements.

Your sentiment here contradicts your one here:

You state you have no problem with WW being able to reach 140+, but then base your reply above on Dark’s assertion that it’s one of the least technically demanding builds. He clearly has an issue with this build being able to clear what it can based on it’s lack of how many keys you must mash. You’re basing your reply on top of his, without stating otherwise, which implies you’re in agreement with his sentiment.


Can you please answer my question now?

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Why should your view trump mine or others who want better balance? You should present your case as I mine.

Once you know how to use the API (and some skills in excel), it does not take very long to do the analysis. I did most of it while watching TV one night. I am tired of misinformation being propagated. The more informed posters can be the better.

During the PTR and thereafter, there was considerable speculation about the top clears would be. As you know, I made a prediction that was widely vilified.

Did you read his latest posts from December?

For barbs you can check out post #50 and #53 in this thread that have links to multiple posts in the past where I advocated for buffs to barbs (and monks). I have also advocated for nerfs to wizards. You can use the search function if you need to.

It’s a sport I just can’t get into. A game of 4 x 15 minute quarters that takes five and a half hours to play. As an Aussie watching sports we’d have run out of beer by quarter time, had a brawl before half time, sobered up by three quarter time, and missed the final quarter because we went to the pub to get more beer. :joy::joy::joy:

Sure do. I’m all good where I am thanks. No direct fire danger but we have been blanketed in smoke on and off for about three months. I’ve been reading that we’ve currently been ingesting the same amount of smoke as a pack a day cigarette smoker, which is fantastic as an asthmatic.

But I’ve got it pretty easy, family members have been evacuated multiple times, 20+ people dead, including recently 3 US people aboard a fire bombing plane that went down, estimated more than half a billion animals lost.

The size of the area burnt is hard to describe to people, that don’t understand the geography of Australia .

That the fires have been burning since August is even harder to explain to them.

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LoL…priceless.

You are obsessed with trying to get people to agree with your idea of balance! I was truly laughing out loud at that statement.

Says the guy who believes his analysis and opinions trump all others…classic irony.

Well played.

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Nice deflection, dodging my question with my own question… We call that spin over here.
You see, you’re not winning me or anyone over, you ask people to answer your questions, but can’t answers others. A constructive discussion is where questions and answers are exchanged mutually. I’d still like an answer to mine.

Who is propagating misinformation?

Yes i recall, and you were right in the end, though there aren’t hoards of barb players clearing 141+ like was predicted.
You were wrong about the level of balance that blizzard were trying to achieve until Matthew posted and clarified it. If i recall correctly, you assumed the mark was GR140. My point is, people on both sides of this debate are right and wrong about different things, including yourself, despite your knowledge on how to extract data.

The nerf barb squad only started piping up again when GR146 was cleared.
What did you think when the lamentation nerf went in after dark cleared that 140?
It was that clear that resulted in the Lamentation nerf, one that blizzard openly admits it overshot. This is what I believe a lot of barbs and probably crusaders are trying to avoid happening. Last time it happened, barbs were left in the scrap heap for years.

This makes me believe, a lot of these nerf posts are only popping up because people want to feel vilified against people that don’t share the same view as there own, people need to put pride aside.

Possibly, please link me

Sure I’ll check these out

I never predicted that there would be hordes of players. I just predicted the top clear potential.

Where did I say the it was 140? I do not think that you recall correctly.

For good reason, that was the +5GRs that was considered not good balance and that would be revisited (Matt made that statement when the first crusader cleared GR 146).

I thought it was over the top and advocated it to be 100%. Read here:

I also advocated for it to be 100% in the PTR.

I linked the latest already.
Here it is again.

I am not posting to change your view. In terms of winning anyone over, neither of us know can make that claim as we do not know whether my points have won someone over. Certainly, people in this thread have disagreed on certain points and advocated for nerfs.

Let me ask you a question Micro.

Have you ever tried out a game and said “I’m going to play the crap out of that game because it is perfectly balanced”!

Never, no one does this. Balance is secondary to fun. I’ll take a fun imbalanced game over a perfectly balanced boring game every single time. However, I’m not saying balance isn’t important, but is absolutely secondary to fun.

If you were on a fun crusade…you’d see a lot more people jumping on your ship.

D3 has nothing but power creep for content so buff all classes to Sader level and lets have fun!

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I have already stated that it is not possible to have perfect balance but certainly we can have better balance (like we had on multiple occasion in the past where the top-weakest solo classes were separated by 5-6 GRs) and not the 14 GRs as it is now.

Did you have fun in era 1, 2 and 3? I did and it did not require clearing GR 150.

I am on a fun crusade. The most fun is had when players of all classes can have reasonable equity.

This is due to the silly only buff, never nerf philosophy.

That’s completely false! It is due to an endgame system that in the most basic terms…is a hunt for +5 main stat so you can repeat the games content over and over with the only constant changing being, increasing health and damage of the monsters for each level.

This is Blizz’s fault…power creep was inevitable. Just like Thanos :grinning:

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???
I don’t see how an unbalanced game can be in favor of fun.
A balanced game will ALWAYS favor fun.
I don’t know if I understand correctly what you mean, but it is much more fun to be able to join a group with DH / WD / Monk where EVERYONE is relevant, instead of just WW or just Chantodo’s or Saders … Besides, where is it SS / HoTA / Charge? Wouldn’t it be much better if instead of just 1 competitive build, we had all of these on the leaderboard? I don’t think I can say the opposite, the balance will always be more fun.

Like I said balance isn’t unimportant and there should not be huge discrepancies between classes. That’s really the issue at the core of things. How you get there is debatable.

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At the end of era 4, the top solo GR clears was GR 77 at under 3K paragon. Now the top GR clear is GR 150 @ ~10K paragon. This paragon difference account for a 4X increase in damage. To get to GR 150, one has to have additional powercreep of >20,000X.

Pretty simple. You play a game because it is fun. If you aren’t having fun and you keep playing…maybe you are a sadist :slight_smile:

Rignt now the core issue is power discrepancies between classes. You will get no argument from me that more balance is needed. The argument on how to get there is the issue I’m concerned with. I’ve said a couple times “no one should feel at a disadvantage when playing their favorite class”.

Some people want to balance around 10K paragon players. I’d prefer balancing around the average player and balance in everyday play (ie solo speeds and grouping [meta and speeds]). I could care less what 10k paragon players are doing.

Some feel there is a trickle down effect, must be firm believers in Reagan :slight_smile: . In some cases this is true, but that is build dependent and some pushing builds are not great for solo speeds or grouping.

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OK? I fail to see any point. Would we be talking about this power creep if D3’s endgame was different? If there was actual content added to keep the end game fresh, there would be no need to boost the power levels as high as they did. The powercreep is a product of their own doing. My guess is they increased it that much cause people don’t like to feel like they aren’t going anywhere and increasing their power levels gives them a sense of accomplishment cause they can now beat a GR that they previously could not attain.

You’ll have to give me a better argument cause I really don’t see how your statement refutes anything I’ve said about D3’s endgame.

I have analyzed low paragon (2.5-3.5K and less than 2.3K) players among the top 1000 in the current non-season leaderboard. This analysis shows that crusaders and barbarians are overperforming.

I provided the link to that analysis also. Here it is again.