You do understand that reilena damage is multiplicative and maltorius spike is additive 700% simple way to say reilena is 4 times multiplier where spike is +700%damage to skill which is already 10k on 6 piece so spike gives 10700
vs reilena 10000 x 4
That’s partly true, while yes there may have been an oversight to the damage bonus where it’s additive, it’s not additive to the set bonus, only +damage on gear (such as head,boots and offhand in this case)
Still causing the set to lose some damage, but not 700%.
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I’m not sure where you’re getting additive vs multiplicative from.
Bone Spear now costs 40 Essence and deals 700% increased damage.
This means that Bone Spear will do 700% more damage to the base skill.
This is a multiplier: x = x + (x * 7)
This is effectively 8 times the damage.
Every point of Maximum Essence increases your damage by 0.5%.
With 660 Essence, this is 330% damage:
x = x + (x * 3.3)
- Your [Bone Spear] deals 10,000% increased damage. Simulacrums gain triple this bonus. (6 pieces)
This means that your Bone Spear does 100 times more damage.
x = x + (x * 100).
So the Spike is basically: x = x + ((x + (x * 7)) * 100) = 801 (if x were 1)
And the shadowhook is: x = x + ((x + (x * 3.3)) * 100) = 431 (if x were 1)
If it is working how you say it is working and it’s 10,000% + 700% = 10,700% then it would be this: x = x + (x * (100 + 7)) = 108
Do you have a source that states this is how it’s working?
In my testing, without Bone Armor/CoE/Krysbins/Curses (for a good base level time), i’m doing about 15B damage with Shadowhook, and about 60B with Bone Armor (400% bonus from SotC).
Without those buffs with the Spike i’m doing 30B, and with Bone Armor 110B.
This indicates that it’s not working how you suggest it is.
2 Likes
Look at your character sheet with and without the spike. With the spike on, you will notice that the bonus damage to Bone Spear is 700% higher than without it on. This increase does not appear when you use other items, and is added to when you put on another item with Bone Spear damage (like the mentioned shoulders, chest armor, or offhand).
So, normally you can max out at +45% Bone Spear damage on your character sheet, and if you have that with something like the Scythe of the Cycle, the net effect will be (100% + 400%) * 1.45 = 725% damage. With the Spike, you will get 100% + 700% + 45% = 845%. If you combine the two together, you get (100% + 400%) * (100% + 700% + 45%) / 100 = 4225%. If you used Nayr’s Black Death (with 4 poison skills say) instead of the spike, you would get (100% + 400%) * (100% + 400%) / 100 * (100% + 45%) / 100 = 3625%. Which means that the Spike is doing right around 17% more damage than the Black Death setup. If it were multiplicative though, it would be doing 5800%, or 60% more than with the Black Death, and 37% more than the Spike applied additively as it is now.
2 Likes
Major point. The set is basically a 7 pc.
Thanks for the MoBC and general Necromancer feedback in this thread.
6 Likes
I don’t think the focus should be on adding more skills to the set, that would be ignoring the problem Bone Spear had since the beginning of Necro with Pestilence (ignored for Corpse Lance and Corpse Explosion).
Fix the skill first and you fix most of the sets issues at it’s core.
I agree, but may be the way to fix the skill is to make it interact more with other skills.
I’ll copy my post here, 'cause we now know they are reading this thread
There’s currently no legendary item that changes the mechanics of Bone Spear. Maltorius offers just a numerical buff, but it doesn’t change the skill’s effect or interaction with monsters or other skills.
I would make the set be more centered around the Bone Prison passive, similar to how Manald’s Heal currently works with the stunning passive of wizards. Changes could be added to existing or new legendary items or to the set bonus.
May be something along the lines of…
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Increasing the chance of casting Bone Prison
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Monsters affected by Bone Prison take XX more damage from all sources for X seconds
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Whenever a Bone Prison is procced, a Bone Spirit is cast from the affected monster to haunt a nearby enemy. Bone Spirit now deals XX more damage. Your Simulacrum now cast Bone Spirit when you do.
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Make Bone Spirit work with Bone-themed runes as well, such as Bone Golem, or Bone Nova.
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Whenever a Bone Prison is procced, a Death Nova is cast to haunt the target. Death Nova now deals XX more damage. (Changes accordingly to the rune you have slotted. This could make a good Iron Rose + Simulacrum + Bone Prison combo)
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The first enemy hit by your Bone Spear triggers a Bone Nova, slowing enemies for XX during YY seconds
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Bone Golem now casts Bone Nova everytime it is hit. Bone Nova now deals XX more damage.
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The first enemy hit by a Bone Spear also triggers 2 Bone Spikes - Path of Bones targeting earby enemies. Bone Spikes now deal XX more damage.
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Whenever you Stun or Inmobilize an enemy, apply a random curse to it. (This could work extremely well with Simulacrum - Cursed Form and Brigg’s Wrath)
Feel free to post your own ideas!
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I’m sitting here totally lost when it comes to what “MoBC” means… my brain has failed me.
Masquerade of Burning Carnival
Yup… I’m definitely an idiot. Thanks.
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Have to agree here, especially on the first point…I have died a few times now due to not seeing them gone.
Also would be nice to have something other than just bone spear, I must admit though I have done quite well up to T10 and GR 70, usually one-shot elites and bosses, but now as I have bumped up into t16 I am beginning to struggle a bit.
Here is my take on this set after some extensive GR runs.
The good:
- Good DR, much less squishy compared to other necro sets.
- Simulacrums do contribute to overall dps though it’s not consistent and tricky at times to get the simulacrums to attack the designated target (elites). More on this later below.
- Mechanics of the set is quite unique and is fun to play.
The bad:
- Damage of bone spear is mediocre due to lack of supporting items. Struggling to complete GR 110+ with this set in its current form. In order to reach GR 135+ this set needs massive damage boost (see suggestions below). The only supporting items 2 hands Maltorious Petrified Spike that gives 700% damage bonus to bone spear is not enough because it’s bonus is additive to bone spear damage bonus from gears (15% x 3 = 45%).
- Simulacrums do not Always attack the same target as you do (stuck behind walls, bone spears from Simulacrums miss the target entirely etc)
- Lack of skill diversity - While Bone Spears is the original intended skill for the set, but it would enhance the build diversity if another skill such as Grim Scythe and/or Death Nova is added to the 6 pieces bonus.
Suggestion:
- Increase Bone spear damage bonus of 2 hands Maltorious Petrified Spike from 700% to 1500% and REDUCE essence cost to 20 instead of 40.
- Introduce a necromancer specific bracer that increase bone spear damage by 400% to enemies that are cursed. (Similar concept to Crusader Bracers of Fury)
- Change 6 pieces bonus of the set to shift the bone spear bonus to the necromancer instead of the Simulacrums. For example: Bone Spear damage is increased by 10000%. In addition, simulacrum no longer deals damage, instead necromancer gains triple this bonus per simulacrum(s) active on the field. This effective bring the damage dealer role back to the necromancer, not the simulacrums. Why would the simulacrum deals 3x more damage than the necromancer in its current form? Makes no sense at all.
- Add Grim Scythe and Death Nova bonus to the 6 pieces in addition to Bone Spears to add diversity to the build since simulacrum is already duplicating grim Scythe while using Haunted Vision. For example: Bone Spear, Grim Scyth and Death Nova damage is increased by 10000%. In addition, this bonus is triple per active simulacrum on the field.
Overall impression: This set is unique in a way that it utilizes a skill that can be quite fun to play but lack damage due to non existing supporting items. The set in its current form checks the survivability box but still doesn’t quite get there in terms of damage potential (due to lack of supporting legendaries and the reliance on damage done by simulacrums instead of the necromancer himself). Fortunately the fix to this problem is suggested above. This set can potentially be as fun and unique to play to even rival that of WD and Crus new sets only if Blizzard follows through and make changes to the set as suggested.
Final notes:
- Just for the sake of comparison, this set is about 20GR behind barbs/monk and 25 GR behind the newly nerfed crusader/wd.
8 Likes
Really well said. I had the same observations.
You are doing great already! There are a few other individual threads on this set, including my own. We greatly appreciate your energy and concern.
While we are on this topic, please take a look at Pestilence set as well. While the new added buff of Pestilence (3300% damage to Corpse Lance and Corpse Explosion) is very much appreciated, it is however still far behind in terms of GR performance. Here is why:
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Corpse Lance
Corpse Lance with its reliance on LotD is an elite hunting build or a RGK build if you will. At the moment, Pestilence central theme is corpse lance due to its 2 pieces, 4 pieces and 6 pieces bonus. Going from 1650% (old number) to 3300% (new number) only yield 5 GR increase. Before the buff, Pestilence Corpse Lance was struggling at GR 125ish, and even the LoD Corpse Lance is able to outperform it by several GR tier. Now with the new buff, Pestilence corpse lance is on par with the LoD Corpse Lance which max out around 130ish GR, which is far behind Barb/Monk 140 GR and Crus/WD 145+ GR.
In order to close this 10-15GR gap, Corpse Lance Pestilence 6 pieces bonus need to go up further from 3300% to 10000% (about 10 GR increase) to reach 140 GR. -
Corpse Explosion
Currently Corpse Explosion is being used with LoD build which gives 9750% damage bonus in addition to about 80% elemental bonus. In order for Pestilence Corpse Explosion to be on par with its LoD version, its bonus must be increased as well from 3300% to roughly 10000% as well to match that of LoD.
3 Likes
really cool idea and really fun to play, does need a bit of a number jump though to be strong. I do love the survivability of it.
really need an armband, damage reduction, death kills fun …
I like about necro … My don’t play it because of that
& bone armor should immunize against control … stop necro ping pong
I had a dream I play necro this season … but … is a dreams
I think Bone Spirit and Bone Spikes should be added to the 6 piece as well. Another potential fix is to buff the 6 set to either 15000 or 20000%. Toughness is better than other necro sets but still requires bone armor. This set needs options for skills other than just Bone Spear.
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