I have added some of the suggestions to the first post. Some still need some fleshing out, but edits are pretty easy.
The idea was to bring SW damage up so that the majority of your damage was coming from SW and the cyclones. SW has a base damage of 105% per second and 145% from Bladestorm rune. that is 1,885% damage at 13 stacks x 9 from VW x 151 from PoJ 6 piece x2.25 from Kyoshiro’s Soul. Compare that to WoL which is 835% damage more than once per second x6.5 from Torch x 2.5 from Pinto’s x 2.5 to 3.5 for Kyoshiro’s Blade x 2.5 for Tzo Krin’s. That works out to each Bell being about 4x the damage of SW (not including Zei’s) and more than 1 bell per second is possible AND each bell has a huge AoE.
A SW focused PoJ build needs about an 8x multiplier to SW to be viable. That can be done with a buff to Eye of the Storm (like I posted earlier) and a new power added to an unused legendary or to raise the power on Kyoshiro’s Soul and add Eye of the Storm.
I have made a few posts in the old forums regarding EP and Uliana builds. One thing I’d like is if they buffed the DoT damage on the non-cold runes by a bit and changed Fist of Az’Turasq to affect the DoT damage, then Impending Doom would not be the clear cut best rune to use. I’d also like if they change SSS a bit. If they change all non-cold runes to a 12 second cooldown and keep Pandemonium at 24 seconds. Then they can change Sustained Attack to drain ALL of your spirit but perform an additional SSS for every 75 spirit drained in the process. That would leave you with a rotation of generate spirit to build up a BIG SSS with physical rune or use the other runes similar to current with a short cooldown or use the cold rune with a longer time between SSS but have no spirit cost (plus the freeze effect). Final values on cooldown numbers can be adjusted as necessary but the idea is to allow choice, right now there is only 1 option, physical SSS and cold EP.
I’ve not really played with SSS and EP, but would a buff like if an enemy has EP applied and gets hit by SSS all remaining DoT is applied to the strike work to bring the other runes up? (with the FoA buff being applied to the DoT as well)
I wasn’t necessarily disputing your math, but the delivery. I think a flat buff to Kyoshiro’s Soul and a power such as your suggested EotS Cyclones is the way to go.
I agree about having more choices of EP and SSS. I actually took my own shot at it in my recent post. To me, Holy SSS and Fire EP are the coolest unused versions, and they should be well-supported by those changes.
Pending more new mechanics or changes whether Blizzard’s, yours, or mine, tho, by nature Cold SSS would never be a manual choice nor would Physical, Holy, or Lightning EP. Clarification on Cold SSS is that the Freeze effect taken alone is counterproductive since SSS is not actually (aside from Holy) an AoE spell, but a chained singletarget spell; it would make it harder and more dangerous to collect targets the way you’d need to.
I’d suggested the Spirit-draining mechanic on Inna set for Mystic Ally instead; I think that it fits best there given extra Spirit and Spirit Regen, along with Mystic Ally having only a full cooldown which leaves use of the full Spirit bar. SSS on the other hand starts with multiple hits and has access to extra hits and heavy CDR, all of which run counter to charging up and dropping a nuke.
Already did some suggestions here
and here
I think the first one came last so its better formulated and not taken into account that current patch changes got there for both.
I forgot that EP detonation consuming all remaining DoT damage was part of my suggestion many moons ago. Since U6 is the only way to detonate high GR mobs reliably, if it consumed all remaining DoT and they buffed the DoT by a bit, Cold would not be doing 2x to 3x more damage than EVERY other rune. I don’t mind Cold being the highest damage but the other runes aren’t in the same league, it’s like a professional sports team vs toddlers.
Thank you. I have added some of your suggestions to the tables above.
Would this work better as part of the 6p Uliana set, or added to the Madstone for a possible LoD/LoN setup?
Something like: Your Seven-Sided Strike applies Exploding Palm. Enemies already affected by Exploding Palm cause Exploding Palm to detonate consuming all DoT.
The idea was to bring SW damage up so that the majority of your damage was coming from SW and the cyclones. SW has a base damage of 105% per second and 145% from Bladestorm rune. that is 1,885% damage at 13 stacks x 9 from VW x 151 from PoJ 6 piece x2.25 from Kyoshiro’s Soul. Compare that to WoL which is 835% damage more than once per second x6.5 from Torch x 2.5 from Pinto’s x 2.5 to 3.5 for Kyoshiro’s Blade x 2.5 for Tzo Krin’s. That works out to each Bell being about 4x the damage of SW (not including Zei’s) and more than 1 bell per second is possible AND each bell has a huge AoE.
2 Likes
While i understand that you want to change justice, and keep sunwuko, i do not think that the devs are at any point going to totaly rework the new set.
They have a filosofi of how they want it, i think the best we can do now is to try and get them to optimize it.
With the two handers, i was not just thinking of diabos, but all two handers in the game.
But again that was just an idea of how to make 2 handers better.
Devs could also just make a set that gives more damage if you are using a twohander.
I dont know, if any one has a better idea it would be nice to hear them😊
2 Likes
that’s good. but i also think you can adjust some numbers like scarbringer to 800% or fist of az and i’d love the ring of ytar that gives you any rune of epi permanent. then rework fire rune to x% additional dmg 
and desert rune to 80% or so
2 Likes
I like the ring name. 
I’ve mostly just played WoL and TR builds, so I’m not sure of how far behind the others are, so don’t feel I could make a valid suggestion on where the numbers should be, so I didn’t change the numbers.
About there being a final vision and that this was it, I’m not sure that’s the case. I missed being part of testing and discussion at the time, but I’ve heard that both the PoJ and AoV sets were MASSIVELY changed before Live release due to community feedback, and this suggests that their current forms are just the way Blizzard decided to check the boxes.
Along with the fact that sets have been reworked post-release in the past too, this also means it’s not pointless, and saying it is and that we shouldn’t bother is a poor mindset.
I don’t mean disrespect to dev intent anyway, since the actual build would still exist. All I’ve intended is to, methods aside, optimize what we’ve got like you suggested. I don’t I think went any farther from core dev intent or the results than suggestions like using all two-handers do.
Well, i would not say POJ got a massive change. They mostly tweeked numbers.
And added damage to “ALL” while channeling TR and sw,
And POJ TR is a good set, currently higher on EU on leader boards then sunwuko. Both have GR 135.
(they only need to fix the speed bug with flurry, the bug with epiphany: inner fire and TR and lastly make DR from 4 set last for 5 sec after stopped channeling)
But if most players wants to change it then its fine by me.
But the changes made to POJ the first time only enforced the DEVs intended vision of the set, it did not change it away from it.
I was there trough all the testing.
1 Like
Have you ever looked at Inna 6 Uliana 4? It was a build that revolved around CoE and doing a SSS at the start of every Holy cycle. The build has been left in the dust by recent patches with no change to Inna 6 or Uliana 4 while other set’s 6 piece bonuses changed. It was a very fun but different play style, you basically grouped up mobs and tried to survive until Holy rotation on CoE and then the screen would explode! It also was a two hand daibo build since you needed to equip Inna Reach to get the Inna 6 and Uliana 4 piece bonus.
Again, I’m a fan of the build. That’s why I didn’t actually suggest to get rid of it, just to move it. I think that it doesn’t need to take the new set away from another option.
I’ve read statements from the devs themselves that suggest there were significant pre-release changes in both direction and form - such as adding Heaven’s Fury to AoV to start with, and “better implementing Tempest Rush as part of the build” for PoJ. So there’s both precedent and justification for this kind of feedback.
Post-release set reworks also have precedent including but not limited to:
- Monkey King and Marauder in 2.1.2
- Immortal King, Roland, Natalya, Inna, Raiment, Zuni, Firebird, and Tal in 2.2
- Helltooth, Manajuma, Vyr, and Chantodo in 2.3
- Raekor, Invoker, Shadow, Inna, Monkey King, and Tal in 2.4
- Delsere in 2.4.1
- Firebird in 2.4.2
And that’s just for sets. We all know the entire game itself is different than it was on launch.
I do know the build! Among my suggested changes was a way to bring it to modern power. If you don’t mind reviewing my full post I’d like to hear what you think afterwards (nudge…).
Your suggested rework would completely gut the I6 Uli4 build. Uliana losing the 4 piece buff to SSS eliminates the build from using that set bonus. Inna 6 (I assume you meant 6 piece bonus because your list says 2pc twice) changed to affect Mystic Ally, SW and CS eliminates that portion of the build.
Now your Justice 6 piece idea (2pc in your list twice?) is basically the current Uliana 4 piece bonus. The damage of Uliana SSS is a drop in the bucket compared to the EP damage from the set so having a 6 piece set with a 4 piece power will be VERY underwhelming (even with the triple SSS from 2 piece).
I6 Uli4 gets the Inna 6 bonus of 76x plus the Uli 4 SSS bonus of about 61x SSS (777% buff x 7 targets) plus Lion’s Claw (x4 effectively) plus x3 from CoE plus Assimilation stacks which means that SSS hits like a TRUCK but only once every 20 seconds.
My suggested Justice set would become the I6U4 build; it’s not gone.
The power of current Uliana 4pc isn’t in just the base damage it provides but also how it interacts with extra hits. I know well that current Lion Claw results in 4x the effect, while the suggested Justice 2pc should result in 9x. There’s also a new fist weapon multiplier, and the ability to finally use FoE in the build means heavy CDR that wasn’t there before. 5x as many casts (before sheet CDR), 2.25x the effect of current Uliana 4pc, and a 7x multiplier from Sledge Fist come to 78.75x (157.5x with a viable 50% sheet CDR), more than making up for losing Inna’s direct 76x. Captain Crimson damage-from-CDR and a 3rd weapon affix make up for Ally/Mantra buffs and debuffs too.
It can be buffed again, but the pieces are there.
I’ll check again for typos. (edit: fixed the 6pc powers accidentally labeled as 2pc)
Well, while i see that you realy would like these changes to happen (which is good shows that you are dedicated), i was not trying to say that your ideas where bad.
i was just trying to say, if there is a way to get some of the changes closer to your vision with out big changes, there is a higher chance of it actually happening.
Big changes to multible sets will proberbly cause bugs( see all the bugs with, just the changes they made now), also may cause unintended power creep, with unforseen builds.
That is why numbers tweeking, adding a legendary, or adding DR is the best way to go for now, the rumors are that the DEVs are realy few ppl now/limited resorces.
Keeping it simple may be the best way to get changes to one class, bigger changes may have to benifit multible classes.