Monk Buff Proposal

General Discussion
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Hello everyone

since I read about barbarians and also how they include in their discussion that even monks need a dmg buff, I took a little time to have some suggestions of how to make monk being inline with other classes dps wise. If you ask my personal opinion I even would remove some defense skills from the monk such that it is not the only choice for a z-class in a 4 man meta matchup. e.g.: half the dng reduction of inner sanctuary but double its size. would not affect any solo build, you can still heal but its not an all in one class.

I’d like to say that I’m not a native speaker so I’d ask you to be kind if some things that I write are not well formulated.

Let’s sum some things up:

This is all about solo gameplay

Compared to Sorc there are missing 8-10 Grift levels, this is round about 3.5 to 4.8 times

monks dmg and a lot of defense (sorc gets it by just attacking). I do play monk since the beginning and only other class that I ever played a little bit is sorc. When I compare the dmg they deal (my inna WoL sometimes does 7 Trillion dmg with one hit (if in circle of merc) and not really often but sorc gets 250 trillion hits pretty often - ok, if coe fire rotation but even without its 80 trio a hit) its just a joke.

Hence we definitely need a buff - but how

We have the following builds:
Generator: Rainment only and Inna 6p and Rainment 2p - but tbh only the rainment version is dmg wise a thing right now and it has more mobility. The build is not playable sub 5k para, its just squishy as heck and can not use nde passive.
WoL: The build for many seasons - but I play this build much longer! Possible with LoN, Inna and Swk - dmg wise LoN is strongest but almost even with innas, swk is just behind. Compared to gen its worse dmg wise but much easier to gear and to play.
LtK: Squishy - not as much as the gen - but unplayable and deals less dmg than WoL
Uliana: Very special build, maybe the tankiest but also to less defense - and dmg wise just bad compared.
Tempest Rush: Nice build to play but no dmg, no def
U4I6: SSS only build, its there but only a sideeffect
A build that is missing for most people is the sweeping wind cyclone build but simply no set to buff.

We need some slight changes for the builds to be better playable. First of all monks do not have defensive items as other classes so

Buff Leve shoulder to 80% reduction (helps inna and lon wol, ltk and is possible with gen but many people would not)
Buff Swk 2p bonus to 80% (swk only)
Buff epi - desert shroud to 80%

Offensice changes (and qol):
tzo and gnk: do the dmg buff of wol resp ltk to the leg power.
Flying dragon: Doubles your aps (no procc)
Balance: Buff to 800% or even 1000%
Cesars: Remove CC property
U6p 2000% (Buffs set by factor 2,?)
U4p 1500% (Buffs set by factor ~2)
Swk: 2500% on each stack and 4p bonus 7 stacks wind if vangeful wind is not equipped - remove vangeful wind (Buffs set by factor 1,66) OR for the 4p bonus: If equipped a 2h weapon you deal additional 500% dmg (then wol can be what it was: a 2h build! - 233% dmg needs to be up to replace wind weapon, the rest is just since 2h weaps are just weaker)
Innas set: 1000% on each ally (Buffs set by factor 1,33)
R2 bonus: 500% (Buffs set by factor 1,25)
R6 Bonus: Gen to 8000% (Buffs set by factor 1,33)
Buff Shenlol set to 300% if full gk (Buffs set by factor 1,5 if full gk)
Then there needs to be a buff on WoL and Ltk
Kyo blade needs increase wol by 500% on each enemy (no restriction to < 3 - that only means only fire rune is playable)
Scarbringer: increases ltk by 1500% on each enemy (no restriction to number of enemys, that just makes it not playable against many enemys)

the last 2 things would mean we have to find those items new - a thing i do not like but otherwise lon would fall back behind other sets. I’d prefer to buff torch over kyo blade but there is no cube replacement on ltk.

Then we need to redesigs fire rune of epi:
You deal additional 50% (or even more) dmg

And then there needs to be a new ring (other classes have also their def and off rings)

“Ring of ytar”:
Secondary 1: 210 physical resistance
Secondary 2: Epi gets effect on every rune (and runs all day long)

and if you do not add the ()-term to the ring add the “belt of ytar”
epi runs all day long (and your aps are increased by 2)

Its absolutely hard to be precise with the numbers so do not fix me on them, they seem to be still to low to be on one level with chant vyr build.
BUT: all those monk builds make a lots of fun, wol as a snipermonk, ltk and gen in the middle of enemys, pulling them together in your dmg radius and kill them and uliana as a very special build and playstyle. If they are even in dmg and even to other classes we may have very much fun.

Maybe some others do have some ideas. I have non for a new set since there are almost no skills in the tree that are not in a set. Maybe we get an epi based set like shadow or so but even this seem to be a bit spuuky. My hope is that you get some ideas for the devs out of the thread. Most important would be the removement of those silly restrictions on cc’d enemys or only if you hit < 3, or for ltk on the first 5-7 enemys and of course why is fd not always up? In theory it is for ltk but serverlags yield to a non 100% uptime for FD. That restrictions are absolutely silly.

An edit by inspiration of this thread: Ideas to improve Tempest Rush - #10 by Helten-1161
Redesign cold rune of tr as follows

update: i think there needs to be something with 2h builds (which are tr and wol). the set should be swk. lets make a change on 4p bonus: when a 2 h is equipped your dmg is increased by 500% and you receive xx% less dmg (depending if 2p bonus is changed).

7 Likes
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Monks have a very laser focused problem. Out of every class in Diablo 3, Monks have the smallest pool of skills to do significant damage to targets with. Their generators fall off far behind EP, WoL and LTK which happen to be the only 3 viable damage skills for solo pushing. Honestly there is not one viable build the Monk has that feels like you’re playing a Monk. The funny thing about this issue is it makes very little sense because Monks have some of the most resource intensive damage skills in Diablo 3 and those very same skills deal pathetic damage.

I’m honestly amazed there wasn’t a set that took all that mitigation the Monk’s skills offer and turned it all into a weapon.

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Is it the “barbs” or someone else/others who keep saying that monks need a buff in addition to barbs? I’m glad someone decides to post and open threads. :sunglasses:

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haha funny guy, its obvious that monks are behind but even in the barb proposal its written :slight_smile:

there are builds feeling like classical monk - these are ltk and generator, but since they are just bad (ltk has almost no dmg even to rg and gen is only playable if you have about 6k para, no knockback, freeze or any cc enemys). therefor gen needs to have perma cc immunity + perma mobility and ltk beeds a huge buff.
ulianas playstyle is so unique that it also feels like a monk, you face on your magical hand and if you had enough concentrated (modellized by cooldown) you can kick the dmg out. its really nice and i know people playin it even > grift 120 but its just behind dmg wise.

also i had another really funny idea to modify rabid strike to buff any attack:
for each attack you summon a clone that does 1 sec long all your attacks. if you calculate correctly, with 7 frames this are 8 clons of you doing your ltk until the first one dies and will be replaced by a new one. but then dmg would seriously go to sky (its about 6.x times stronger than rs is right now) but for wol its only a x1.6 multiplier. but man that would slso mean monks everywhere and massive lags inc.

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Restrictions on “when hit less than 3 enemies” is for you to not be able to sustain the skill cast or refrain you from toppling enemies to cause lag. While it can be removed on short ranged skills I doubt it’d go well for long ranged piercing hits.

I think Monk can easily become a RGK if Blizzard brainstorms on it abit. More damage against enemies under crowd control allows them to sweep trash easily.
If their ranged nukes (that includes their LtK fireball) and Dash charges buffed they can chase down rift guardian with great effectiveness or stand to be a caster.

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Sorry but I do not really understand you. The Kyo blade weapon buffes your wol by +150% if you hit more than 3 enemys and buffs it by up to +250% if you hit less. So there is no difference in how it works except the damage delt. I think it was introduced to have an effect against single target - but they did not see that anyone uses fire rune and places the bell near to enemys but not on top. Removing that property would mean full dmg anytime such that the lightning rune of wol is again playable (which is not the case right now!).

Monks rainment + shenlong is a good rgk but it has no group buffs (such as necro or dh) and it does simply less dmg and its the squishyest build ever grown in the whole universe. It really needs kind of additional 80% dmg reduction or so (and compared to other classes more dmg).

1 Like
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Backhanded wristslap for Monks to keep enemies split via crowd control I believe. Mass area damage calculations against large flocks are always trouble so they reward you for hitting smaller groups.

I donno if Monks need more damage mitigation since they’re hefty tanks. Something specific can be done for R6 build alone by utilizing resource for damage mitigation or so. Each spirit that Monk have, can get them extra damage mitigation for example.
At the other hand I liked the all-rune access Epiphany belt idea, not sure about ring.

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Reduce the cooldown of Epiphany by a lot, high cooldowns suck for these kind of games. And give it a 50% damage buff.
Sometimes things are so damn easy.

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Have you ever played monk solo? I have no idea about other classes (ok, did play a bit sorc) but I have many people talking to, dh say surviving is easy (mobility enywhere, no ressource probs at all) cru survives 10 lvl more than they can clear sub 15 mins, sorc builds up stacks, I have no idea about other classes but monk seems to be squishyest class solo of all. That is one reason why so many players play wol: Its distance build and you do not have to stand in the middle of somewhere. Which skill gives me reduction when I have spirit solo? Which build has spirit left for monk? Uliana maybe, but wol you need cdr and rcr just to be able to ring the bell anytime, ltk same, gen has this shenlong spiritsucking thing. There is no spirit left. If you think you can say it from seeing people playing the healer in a group - the healer and a monk are 2 different classes.

Yepp, see suggestion to “Ring of Ytar” and redesignment of fire rune. But just to let you know: If you only make epi stronger, then you need to make it 350% more dmg for all attacks.

Just to let you know: I’m not native speaker - but with wol build (and thats the build with the < 3 enemy limit) you right now deal the dmg to many enemys pulled together with your CS. You simply set the bell near to enemys, not on them. So there is no change here if you remove that limitation.

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Now you put it like that… Let me try harder… What about a buff to Kekegi headwear (its inner cooldown can be tighten) or a change to Band of Rue Chambers allowing you to sustain spirit or smash your spirit battery when needed? Else change the effect to each spirit that you miss.
Would that help?

And am saying that restriction is there for you to not attempt a mass pull by running back and forth.
Removing the restriction sounded good to me but dev team may have just move with a damage buff and call it a day. You’d still be using the same skill in that case.

Monk need some sort of ever-growing damage amplification to be on par with dps classes. May be just like Juggernaut of Barbarians they need to grow in power when they’re pinned down by CC effects or their third attack on generators really should strike it for the sky.

My idea is making LTK fireball projectile (from that spirit stone) to hit a different element and become really loaded at long range once it travelled a certain distance. WoL can be fixed pretty easily if you buff it straight, I trust your numbers.
That’s the best I can think in this sleepless state.

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Monks needs defensive buffs for sure.

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Both items are not used in a solo build. tbh: they are absolutely useless in any build I know. I tried to use the helm (in cube) when swk was strong and I wanted to play lightning WoL but there is no option for this item. Band of rue is just wasting a ring slot. Even in gen build its easy: have 2.2 aps unbuffed and you get full spirit → never use this item.

Any good solo monk WoL player pulls massive groups of enemys by running back and forth (and he needs to run because the build is squishy to not die immediately). Maybe LoN WoL not need to pull that big groups, but WoL is an AD TK build so you need big groups. You are even faster if you just skip elite solo. I did some gameplay vids for that.
The LtK ball does not deal that much dmg. You even can remove it completely and buff all LtK runes. Would be better for anyone.

thanks, appreciated. So many times in german forum there are complaints whenever it comes to monk crifts :smiley:

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They can be changed to cut your spirit battery cooldowns. That’d be nice if Kekegi can prevent Shenlong drain on its proc or Rue Chambers reduce cooldown of Mystic Ally with generator strikes.

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You miss one point: You have no room to equip it on any build except swk wol.
cd reduction of allys only makes sense if you use innas set, so again wol.
I think we should bring all sets even and equally dmg and def wise. The playstyle is kind of ok.
And even if you have infinity spirit you simply do NOT skill any defense skill solo (like palace, boh, …) maybe serenty, but epi is my fav.

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Nice one @Atomfurz, I’m really happy to see someone getting the ball rolling for this. The Barbs have done a spectacular job in stating their case. It’s kinda inspiring actually…

Seems Blizz have at least acknowledged their efforts, and the recent attention D3 has been getting is also making me think it’s not a waste of time after all.

Season 18 starts on the 23rd, so we should have access to the new stuff soon to do some more testing and see where we stand for 2.6.6.

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  • Epiphany needs an update, something like making Desert Shroud default or adding 50% increased damage.

  • Sunwuko needs a 7th set piece. Having to use the Amulet or RoRG is brutal.

  • Monk spenders need a refresh. Didn’t a bunch of skills get damage updates a couple of years ago? Was Monk included? If not, it needs to be. Technically, even if it was, it needs to be again.
    LTK & WOL cost a lot of Spirit.

  • Doesn’t Uliana still require a glitchy mechanic sort of like Wall Charge? Where you have to make sure the Exploding Palm has Mythic Rhythm applied?

  • ShenLong could use a buff in regards to Quality of Life. It’s not a fun mechanic and can be very intense.

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Yeah, epi is mentioned above
yeah, swk is sometimes kind of annoyin but it needs to be able to get another buff. sometimes i’d wish other sets to have an amu :smiley:
monk spenders were inline and ltk got one of biggest buffs - but set buffs came later so they were to small :slight_smile:
yes, uliana and MR is a big problem, there needs to be a symbol, good point there.
yeah, I also am not a fan of shens mechanic, BUT: if you put all para into vit and play a 100-105 range (for me with about 1.5 mio screen dps then) you will see the following: spirit is no problem at all, just have enough ias on gear (2.2 aps unbuffed). Life regeneration is then enough since that gem for gens aaaaaaaaand: all cc effects are a pain :smiley: the latter one is what needs a change (see suggestions to epi and that freakin ring with having epi all time up).

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Support Monk says hi…
https://eu.diablo3.com/en/profile/Meteorblade-2266/hero/120004303

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support healer !! its absolutely not a monk. in any solo build its a wasted slot. first paragraph “this is all about solo play”

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Is there a way to embed the new Captain Crimson set to R6-Shenlong then? I first thought about Aughild’s but Spirit Guards are too good to give away. One of the Shenlong fists offer a mediocre amount of RcR% while other one increases LpSS? So you’ll have a reason to pair Crimson set belt with its boots or pants.

In groups you’ll lose the Unity so we’re talking about 20% extra RcR (counting paragon) to catch up for it to be worthy of swapping it for RoRG.
If that fails an Epiphany all rune unlock belt or a ring is always an option.