Make GR Speeds Not Necessary

PTR Feedback
41

Good topic. I also am not fan of speedruns.
Actually there was recently really good improvement of getting practically free lvl 125 augments. Last season we even got almost free resources for them from ancient vaults.
As a result, I could play much less speed content and much more slower content.

Naturally I got less XP out of it. This was not very big issue for me since getting ~50% of optimal XP means only maybe ~1GR level worth of less dmg at para 4k vs para 5k.
Bigger issue is not getting equally good items. 1min 90GR results equal amount of items compared to 15min 150GR. I played quite a lot this season so I got one build really good and managed 150 solo with it. But with spamming speed content whole season I probably would have gotten at least 2 more builds perfected.

I’d like to have better gear from higher levels to support slower runs. But as it would be really major change I don’t expect it to ever happen.

PS more whining from me - after one month of season, multiplayer didn’t offer push possibilities practically at all (pls no comments about why not playing with one finger or eyes closed or worse builds). I liked pushing nicer in those seasons when I couldn’t do 150 in any way I tried with my friends or at solo play. Based on PTR next season will be similar than S27 for multiplayer. I just hope solo runs will remain better challenge.

42

I love to push so I’m pretty obsessed about XP too → staying as low as possible and still get into the a decent spot on the Non-season leaderboards.

That’s why I’ve completely avoided speed runs for years.

In the current season, there’s a #1 WD 150 clear at 6:32 at P11610. Boring and not that interesting.

The #7 GR150 clear at P2412 at 13:33 → Now that’s impressive.

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43

I have a similar way. I’m not the most efficient, but the season of Ethereals, I did a 140 at 2700 paragon. That season, I had a specific amount of paragon I wanted about halfway through the season, when I realized I could get to 4K on my nonseason characters when the season rolled over.

I may not be able to jump into a 150, but doing that 140 was thrilling doing it all SSF except for times I ran solo bounties and invited clanmates to collect because why not.

But I figure, it’d be okay if say with that same 2700 paragon and this season’s theme I’d be doing a 150.

If for no other reason than to have finally reached that goal without grouping. I mean, I could do it now, but I’d have to group and that would ruin it for me I think. But doing it myself, playing a few more 10 minute GRifts and few less 2 minutes ones would be ideal for me.

44

I tend to play seasons for as long as it benefits my non-season toons. I cleared my 150 solo in the shards season playing the super OP Inna monk before it was nerfed. The only reason I did that was I knew the build was so OP that I could clear 150 at low paragon to get maxxed bloodshards which would carry over to non-season. I think I was around P2400 for that season.

I rarely get above P1800 in any given season.

This season I stopped after finishing Guardian. I started playing again was because of the Holiday Gifts which was easy legendary mats for non-season without having to do group bounties.

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45

GR speed have 3 advantages : higher xp, more legendaries, SSF mode. Your proposition only fills the first advantage, but I agree : better to spend your time pushing than doing speed gr all the time.

46

The more legendaries thing can be mitigated. I mean, once you have really good ancients, which can come pretty quickly, not extremely so, just quickly, then the item hunt is reduced to level that it might as well not as exist.

So, speeds would still serve a purpose early in the season, with this proposal. But yes, SSF being so much further behind group play is a problem I can concede. But it’s a limitation that I’ve accepted this far into the game that I just don’t see it changing.

47

I wrote this in Raxx’s how to fix D3 thread:

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48

I like it! Good job bud.

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49

Now let’s be friends.

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50

But I hate blasting and pushing. Neither style is what I’d consider balanced gameplay.

51

Then play the style you enjoy and don’t worry about maximizing for efficiency. The xp is always there and there will always be a most efficient way of acquiring it. Either way, proposed changes will never benefit everyone, that is impossible. I play for fun not efficiency and I don’t mind the lost xp. It’s a choice I made for myself personally. Gotta find what works for yourself bud.
With that being said, maybe you can come up with a change that might be better. I’m all for new ideas that is where innovation spawns from.

52

I certainly agree with this sentiment. But, I think the issue you’re running into isn’t the issue you think it is. The game is essentially split into two phases:

  1. doing stuff to make your character stronger
  2. using that new strength to “push” higher

If I understand correctly, you are saying you don’t enjoy phase 1. Well, maybe not, because I believe that phase 1 is the core of the game: it’s the leveling up, the loot hunt, the exp hunt, the leveling of legendary gems, grinding enchanting mats, etc. If you don’t like that, why play the game at all? No, I’m not saying you shouldn’t play the game. I mean, is it only the “speed GRs” that you don’t like? Or is it all of phase 1?

I think what you’re really getting at is what a lot of us feel. You eventually hit a saturation point where the ROI of phase 1 is super low. At that point, the game (or you, rather) suffers heavily from diminishing returns. The time it takes to make any improvement increases exponentially. It’s easy to lose interest or stop having fun in the interim.

The game suffers yet again from another level of diminishing returns when you have essentially maxed out every aspect of phase 1 except for one thing: paragon. I don’t mean to speak for you, but I’d wager you have no problem with speed GRs while loot hunting or legendary gem leveling, but when you hit that wall where you need 500-1000 paragon to get to the next GR clear, ugh. And what makes it poignantly miserable is once you’re there, that is the only way to progress.

There isn’t a great solution as long as the paragon system exists it its current form. The only solution I see is for D3 to revamp the paragon system, but I don’t see them ever doing that with D4 so close to release. The other solution is to just keep pushing. You’ll get lots of exp and gear, even if it’s slower than you would with speed GRs. It’s less competitive, perhaps, but if that’s what you enjoy, just keep doing it.

All that being said, here’s what I do to keep phase 1 fun. I play lots of different classes and builds. This extends the loot hunt and gem leveling considerably, all the while getting lots of exp and not getting bored by running the same build ad nauseum.

Or, you can do what lame people do. Use bots to do the speed GRs for you.

53

You pretty much understand me.

But as far as different phases and what not…

In the season of ethereals, which was my most played season, earned near 3000 paragon that season. But toward then end, I wanted a specific amount of paragon so that at season’s end when the rollover happened I would have 4000 paragon on the button in nonseason.

It was at that point that I was running lots of speeds, which coincidentally is what I would have had to do to get higher than my 140 clear that season.

But it was running all those speeds and pretty much nothing else that made me burn out for the next two seasons.

It’s not that I don’t like the game. I enjoy it actually but at a certain point, it’s nothing but principally one activity and that one activity, to me, is really boring.

Edit:

But I wouldn’t have minded it as much if I could run a little higher Grift where the speed was a bit slower and the danger was ramped up a bit, and that was efficient to do.

54

I know this wasn’t directed at me but I want to validate the fact that the solution provided isn’t that simple.
I hate speeds period. I do not do them for gear/upgrades or paragon levels. I don’t mind if I am behind someone who does run speeds BUT it would be nice to find a balance between said forms of running GRs.
Dmkt and myself have offered solutions that do not force anyone to play a certain style but rewards all styles more evenly.

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55

It makes me sad to think someone missed season 25.

My point maybe wasn’t clear. If you’re running a GR for some reason besides exp/paragon gains, then maybe it wouldn’t feel like a “speed” GR, especially if you’re doing it on a different class or using a different build.

In s27 I was always mixing things up between Tal Rasha’s, Lod WoL, Strafe+Impale, and Strafe+Multishot (with a little necrospice mixed in). By the time I maxed out what my pushing goals were, I didn’t feel burnout yet, because I had those different options. If one day, I wanted to hit a slower higher exp GR, I’d usually go with WoL. If I wanted a super fast low exp GR, I do Strafe+MS. Etc. Hopefully, the idea is clear.

I can’t imagine anyone running just one build for thousands of paragon levels and not wanting to quit the game forever.

56

May I kindly ask what your definition of “speed” GRs is?

57

I suppose it would be a mindless GR blast where you first use the calculator on Maxroll to see which level gives the max exp per hour, then you just faceroll it, sacrificing interesting or defensive skills and passives for the fastest advancement possible, paying no attention to which RG you got, spam clicking on the legendary gems at the end, teleporting back to town before you are half done, restarting the next GR as quickly as possible, constantly mashing ESC to get Orek to shut up, never taking the time to think about which maps or monsters you flashed through or what loot you picked up, feeling no true satisfaction at all, all for that next sweet hit of paragon.

Pardon if I waxed a tad hyperbolic. I’ve tried playing that way. I’d rather do the dishes.

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58

No you’re good bro, no worries. I just needed to know if our definitions lined up. You made this statement.

So, I wasn’t sure if you were implying that you could change the feeling of speed GRs. I myself can never lose that horrible, mindless, rushed feeling of speeds no matter how hard I try. Hence, I do not run them. Once in a blue moon I will have a friend who practically begs me to do them, but I cannot last more than 20-30 minutes. I tap out!
All in all, I much rather lose out on efficiency and enjoy my gameplay.
I do hear your suggestion to multiple characters but to me speeds are speeds, and nothing changes that fact or feeling.

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