LOD vs Zuni carn


#1

Several postings and videos list LON doc as the superior carnevil build. When looking for leaderboards it looks like everyone is using Zuni. Has something changed?


#2

Not sure what you are on about…?

You make it sound like the entire leaderboard is Zuni, and it’s not. Checked the top 10 and few other random samples, and it’s about 50/50.

But to your point, the ones that are using Zuni, seem to be doing it with Aughild’s in all cases, so I guess they are going for the extra elite damage & reduction.


#3

LON is tougher but the damage output is lower, even with Zuni using Unity.
With increasing Grift levels the monster health grows much faster than their damage output.
So initially in the season LON is popular because defense is a limiting factor, and as ppl get more paragon and augments (and a 3rd gem at higher level), Zuni will take over as damage output becomes limiting.
Right now Zuni gets me about 2 levels higher.
How to cope with the squishiness of Zuni ? I’ve dropped Soul Harvest for Horrify so I can keep at a distance all the time, and changed PTV (which is really only about 11% dps because of all the other DiBS) to Bad Medicine.


#4

I keep seeing people saying this, and I can’t help but wonder what am I doing wrong. I’m nowhere near where damage output would be limiting (barely GR105) and I can generally kill the RG in 10 or 15 seconds, but event with the LoD setup, it’s one wrong move and I’m toast, making progress through GRs extremely slow. Lvl full of succubi? No point in even trying.

Even at T16, I can get easily killed by just about anything if I’m not being very careful, while if I switch to Jade Harvester, I can face-tank the whole floor’s worth of mobs without much trouble.

Do I just have to learn to live with the fact that Carnevil is glass cannon no matter what I do and adjust my gameply?


#5

Both builds are glass cannons but LoD is tougher than Zuni.


#6

Another factor - Zuni is far more forgiving on death since you can recast your army obtaining nice meat shields and near full damage. While LOD is painfully slow to build up to full speed starting from zero fetishes.


#7

Yeah that’s a great point. Starting with awful density in a GR makes it terribly tough for LoD given lack of SH stacks. Otherwise it’s tanky and fun.


#8

Same if you get killed by the RG - it’s next to impossible to get the SH stacks up before you get one-shot. Especially without having those 15 fetishes to act as meat shields…


#9

Zuni replace soul harvest with Horrify and it’s even better versus RG. Armor always up and you never have to get close to harvest.


#10

At the end of the day what matters is how high a GR you can achieve and for me with low paragon LoD has been more effective versus the stronger Zuni variant. I believe that’s due to the toughness of LoD combined with utilization of double pylon time.