Just curious on peoples opinions on this personal loot idea

Faulty-1530 · March 9, 2021, 4:03am

I will start by saying I dislike the personal loot idea with Diablo 2. There are many reasons, but mainly I think it will greatly encourage more leeching while removing incentives to rushing, a major component to D2. However, saying that, I understand especially with consoles it may be necessary for personal loot due to harder targeting(if that is not somehow greatly improved).

Alright down to the idea(I’ve posted in D2R general but would like to see how others think of this idea).

Have drop chance tied to area/act Level.
Example Act 1 Hell (Level 67 area):

We go rushing/farm/looting. Me 62, and my buddies 71, 80, 57, 55.

If we all stay together somehow so we can see this math easier, and we find 500 items, the split would look like this.

80 - 100% of his personal drops
71 - 100% of his personal drops
62 - 90% of his personal drops
57 - 5% of his personal drops
55 - 0% of his personal drops

They still get whatever XP there is, which depending on their level is bad or decent, but now those decreased drops for leechers, are given to the more useful or worthy to even be in this act players.

80 gets 100 + (10/2) + (95/2) + (100/2) = 202.5 or 40% chance of the drops
71 gets 100 + (10/2) + (95/2) + (100/2) = 202.5 or 40% chance of the drops
62 gets 90 or 18% chance of the drops
57 gets 5 or 1% chance of the drops
55 gets ZERO or 0% chance of the drops

Those two clearly deserve more, at best 62 can do a little damage, so he has almost no penalty, but 57 and 55 are in no way helping, they are getting an XP boost and WP gain, they deserve no loot for their work, or lack thereof. If 62 gets to 63 then he hits 100% personal loot and will now split with the other two strong guys.

So it becomes:

80 gets 100 + (95/3) + (100/3) = 165 or 33% chance of the drops
71 gets 100 + (95/3) + (100/3) = 165 or 33% chance of the drops
63 gets 100 + (95/3) + (100/3) = 165 or 33% chance of the drops
57 gets 5 or 1% chance of the drops
55 gets ZERO or 0% chance of the drops

[If the area is higher than all players]
The only trick would be situation like level 67 area with 63, 61, 59, 55.

There you can do variable % as you clearly are with friends.
Make 63 be the new 67 and work your way back

400 items found

63 gets 100 + (50/3) = 117 or 29% chance of drops
61 gets 100 + (50/3) = 117 or 29% chance of drops
59 gets 100 + (50/3) = 117 or 29% chance of drops
55 is now (63-55) 8 levels lower than highest. - gets 50 or 13% chance of drops

This stops low level item theft, due to them unable to actually kill in that area, and allows rushing to still be in the rushers advantage. If someone high level arrives in your game, you can invite and take the hit over his help or not.

A quick second example. Act 5 Hell Level 85
Players 92,88,87,85,80,77
600 items to keep math easier

92 gets 100 + (10/4) + (50/4) = 115 or 19% chance of drops
88 gets 100 + (10/4) + (50/4) = 115 or 19% chance of drops
87 gets 100 + (10/4) + (50/4) = 115 or 19% chance of drops
85 gets 100 + (10/4) + (50/4) = 115 or 19% chance of drops
80 gets 90 or 15% chance of the drops
77 gets 50 or 8% chance of the drops

Again I dislike personal but if absolutely needed, I would prefer this over a constant 1/8 (12.5% drop chance) if in a full group of anyone regardless of level. This can apply to everything besides potions/scrolls those types of items.

Alright last example:

Act 5 Level 85 area, full team, 97,92,91,88,87,85,83,81

97 gets 100 or 12.5% chance of the drops
92 gets 100 or 12.5% chance of the drops
91 gets 100 or 12.5% chance of the drops
88 gets 100 or 12.5% chance of the drops
87 gets 100 or 12.5% chance of the drops
85 gets 100 or 12.5% chance of the drops
83 gets 100 or 12.5% chance of the drops
81 gets 100 or 12.5% chance of the drops

Catastrophe-1371 · March 9, 2021, 8:49am

I’m so much against personal loot that I’m not even going to bother reading the suggestion fully. Though I get the idea of it.

D2 is not a personal loot game. A big part of the fun of it is the chase and competition. Personal loot comes from people who are crybabies that they didn’t click the shiny object first. Crying because somebody else got something.

Faulty-1530 · March 9, 2021, 9:15am

I agree completely, by conversations others are having they are dead set on even split if personal, I just wanted to throw out an option if they are cornered into that with trying to get PC players working with console players. I do not want this either

Fedaykin-2584 · March 9, 2021, 12:04pm

as preface: I am all for personal loot because that way you do not have to fight with grabbers or have to say, from the get go, that I do not play with randoms because I do not trust them and so on (heck I went into closed communities and then SP for reasons, drops were part of that) etc and it is not like your drops affect those of somebody else anyway.

worthless

lemme give an example

a lvl 50 hammerdin can (as you do not even need to have Holy shield maxed or even skilled) have the following skills:
20 blessed hammer
20 conce
14 bai or vigor
before he even starts hell difficulty
( and if he got rushed through hell, we can add another +4 allskill from quests)
he will be able to wear at least viper+peasant crown/lore, double spirit and a +3 pc amu
meaning ~+6 all +3 pc and could easily run 125% fcr (mages+viper+dual spirit=110 fcr on average, so 2 fc rings neccessary

he will be at 2,7 casts per second and ~1500+ magic damage per hammer

your a1 fallen lvl 67 area will have 1028 to 2261 HP in bnet ladder in a sologame (and will have no magic resistance)
you are in a p5 game, so additional 200% Hp
so somewhere between 3k and 6,6k HP

the lvl 50 hammerdin will kill such a fallen with 5 hammers hit tops and 3 minimum, which he casts in a little under 2 seconds. (and as he’d deal enough damage to trigger the FHR animation of the fallen, he’d even be somewhat safe)

the soloplay problem for that char is more linked to immunes and maybe not having the defenses (as in that example i used he would not have 1 point hs, maybe a little low on the resistance side and his own merc could not block worth crap for him)

you can likely do the same for every other character built, like say
an orb sorc would sit at 1 point wonders (tele,tk,static,warmth)
20 orb, 20 syn 1 -x mastery

a fire sorc would sit at 1 hit wonders 1 , 20 fb 20 syn 1-x mastery

all viable enough if you have a basic clue of how your character works and what the character build needs.

(melees will have more problems, as they are CTH dependent, and your character level is part of that calculation)

and that is not even going into somebody saying, for example, for the purpose of leeching (as i can get a stats and skill reset thrice+ the token method) I will do a supporting style build and just sit there and do nothing.
whatcha think happens to the killspeed of a party when a maxed conv (-150% res) sits there which is possible with a lvl 50 character, or a maxed fana or conce or say instant AD on the enemy
or maybe a 78 fcr lvl 20 static all the time?
or say insight staff+cleansing active with prayer aura maxed

people can contribute well enough and even be able to kill if they only know what they are doing

and that is not even getting into people building dedicated builds for specific tasks like say a lvl 70 LH java with strokes, who will smash a baal on players 8 faster than your lvl 90 whatever char, because she is only set up to fulfill that singular task

insidious-1502 · March 9, 2021, 2:15pm

I honestly am okay with either personal or free for all loot, as long as it is implemented in a way that doesn’t wreck the economy, and splits the total loot such that it’s not introducing “bonus” items.

I see what you’re trying to do with your suggestion to give the players more likely to be contributing the lions share of the loot, but I’m not sure basing it solely on level really works to determine how much someone is contributing. If someone has a self-found character with poor equipment, they may be contributing much less damage to the party than a lower level player that has twink gear that makes them perform better. Your suggestion would punish them for being lower level, despite the fact that they may actually be contributing more to kill the monsters.

Being on newer battle.net, it will be interesting to see if D2:R has some of the newer functionality like vote-kicking players, as part of the QoL improvements they’re introducing. If you end up in a public game with a leech that you don’t want to carry, you could then vote-kick them, which might give more lee-way in how they implement any changes to the loot system.

Strolln-1287 · March 9, 2021, 5:02pm

The idea of players following bots around and getting personal loot is cringe. It will make the game feel like we are sweat shop workers just following around bots. Might as well join the botters at that point.

Big no on personal loot.

Fedaykin-2584 · March 9, 2021, 5:48pm

much of battle net experience for many players is running around in public runs, aka bot infested garbage, so your point is?

Faulty-1530 · March 9, 2021, 6:56pm

My only argument against these twink out gear guys is if they are that geared up, especially for those areas, they will not be in those areas for long or are only there for the 20 minutes it takes to get to 80. Why would you twink out a guy for 50? Especially since you already got hell rushed, your just really there to get XP until you can do runs. Sure decking him out makes him be able to do the content, but you won’t want to stay there long, if your at that level for some kind of side game than xp and drops isn’t your top priority there.

If your strong and can do 67 content alone at 50 (which sure is possible) is not something I ran into 90%+ of the games I went into, but I see your point.

Not saying your wrong, your absolutely right, I would say that’s rarer exception… definitely a factor though.

oscurokey-1241 · March 9, 2021, 7:50pm

I think they should just leave it how it is. The game doesnt need personal loot this is not WOW or diablo 3.
Single player offline with mods? Sure let people have personal loot or whatever other crazy stuff they want. This game isnt balanced or built for 8 people getting their own loot each run. It would flood the economy.
Also it would change how the entire game was played. Rushing, and lots of things your probably not even thinking of might change too. Not worth it leave it.

Faulty-1530 · March 9, 2021, 7:54pm

It would change the economy, playstyles, teammate choices, rushing choices, in my opinion it changes the game, this idea is meant only as a last resort to getting something like Console/PC crossplay. I can see that being the hangup to this feature, console players without PC players are going to have a hard time properly clicking on loot as it is I imagine, could never compete with a PC player, they could allow keyboard and mouse on console but console players would then feel that’s a betrayer to the majority of console players.

Dunno just a thought experiment for ideas I guess, I would prefer it never changes.

Fedaykin-2584 · March 9, 2021, 8:39pm

if you wanna get rushed, you get rushed, has been part of the game for decades
if you wanna play, you play, has also been part of the game for decades.

I did not make a “twink” line up, I merely described an example of a low cost built, which gets you through at least nightmare baal, if not way beyond that (heck, replace the spirit weapon with a wizard spike, which is a pgem item and you can kill baal hell with that setup), and which is obtainable for the price of runes >sol and items that can be got in normal or up to ~ a2 nightmare.
it is simply a question of: what does the character build need/what are the strengths and what are the weaknesses…

4 socks crystal swords drop from area 2 a5 onwards, same for 4 socks polearms

insight merc with ral ort thul armor (preferrably eth and socketed via cube recipe

what would personal loot change?
it removes grabbing, it does 0 for the chance to get any item in a drop

the whole
“oh it changes the economy” is quite a weird statement.
then again, have you ever played single player and played non trade? you can wait years and years and play continuously and not have certain items drop etc.

the rare items would still be rare and your “standard items” would still be obtainable or not depending on how much time you put into the game

Faulty-1530 · March 9, 2021, 8:47pm

I am not sure if what you are debating or who you are debating with, are you saying this method would change single player twink gameplayer? you would get 100% of the drops, your the only one there.

The rest I dunno it’s just a lot in there that doesn’t lead to answers or statements.

Fedaykin-2584 · March 9, 2021, 8:54pm

okay you do not get the point, then let me elaborate

1, personal loot does have 0 influence on the rarity of any items that drops in the drop mechanic
2. i am saying that you can easily get through the game with stuff that is dirt cheap and can be gotten before even half of the whole game is played through. tryng to make drop a player lvl dependent thing is useless because your capabilities are not really governed by your charlvl, but by your equipment. (which is why i brought up the cheap lvl 50 char and killing the lvl 67 in under 2 seconds)
3. I asked you wether you ever played single player and experienced the scarcity there, because you are the only one there? getting all of the drop does not mean you get anything useful, capiche?

Faulty-1530 · March 9, 2021, 8:57pm

okay you do not get the point, then let me elaborate

You kidding me, what you wrote looks like someone had a stroke.

personal loot does have 0 influence on the rarity of any items that drops in the drop mechanic

Was not discussed by me, not sure why this is there.

i am saying that you can easily get through the game with stuff that is dirt cheap and can be gotten before even half of the whole game is played through.

K so what are you saying? your twinked out guy you cant get from 50 to 80 in 10 minutes like everyone else? is it that bad of a decked out character.

I asked you wether you ever played single player and experienced the scarcity there, because you are the only one there? getting all of the drop does not mean you get anything useful, capiche?

Again so? what point are you arguing against, why are you stating this, what is your point?

Fedaykin-2584 · March 9, 2021, 9:44pm

really, scarcity of drops is not relevant to the topic? .,…

Faulty-1530 · March 9, 2021, 9:45pm

Just tell me in what way do you mean that? Does my hybrid personal change something for you? in what way did it make your drops harder, and in what situation are you thinking about. Maybe I can actual understand what position your coming from with scarcity of items. Are you meaning my personal would mean increased drops? The formula changes the drop chance of each item, not increase or decrease items.

I just don’t know what your asking for or how this scarcity issue is being presented.

Fedaykin-2584 · March 9, 2021, 11:40pm

your hybrid personal is a bullsh*t idea, because we are talking finding items, finding items is linked to killspeed
killspeed depends more on equipment than on level difference as i hope to have illustrated with the simple cheap hammerdin example.

the only difference for an economy that personal drops would bring, would be overall more items dropping, as each person would get their own drop. however, as the scarcity of a drop is not changed, you have little consequence for the economy as a whole, because, say a soj will still only drop rarely

Faulty-1530 · March 9, 2021, 11:48pm

your hybrid personal is a bullsh*t idea, because we are talking finding items, finding items is linked to killspeed
killspeed depends more on equipment than on level difference as i hope to have illustrated with the simple cheap hammerdin example.

Not really a great or well thought out case, was it single person, multiple, what’s the group makeup, yes items are linked to kill speed vs mf stackable. Dunno again I am not promoting personal, especially on PC but console it makes sense. Please calm down.

would be overall more items dropping, as each person would get their own drop. however, as the scarcity of a drop is not changed, you have little consequence for the economy as a whole, because, say a soj will still only drop rarely

Again it isn’t increasing or decreasing actual drops, it is assigning a chance that the drop that would have already happened was going to be yours. You keep missing the points or making arguments against points I’m not making. Please I get it you don’t want personal, I don’t want personal, this is for the weird idea of console and Diablo 2 which eliminates mouse click ability with whatever the console chooses first as your target.

I would love to discuss scenarios but you keep flying off on tangent’s.

Catastrophe-1371 · March 10, 2021, 12:23am

I think there is some misunderstanding here about levels. While the 5 stat point and skill point obviously matter from each level, items don’t work the same.

Hell can be beaten with items farmed easily in normal and nightmare. Nightmare also drops some of the most valuable and commonly sought after and tradeable items.

It takes no more than a concentration/berserk barbarian, a patient frozen orb sorc, or nearly anything else to run Nightmare Andy, Trav, Meph, Chaos. From there are your SoJ, skulders, titans, duriel’s shell, and just so many other good things. Normal is wonderful for magefists and other tier one items.

The game is beatable and farmable without runewords, complete sets, and the best-of-the-best.

And scarcity of drops is important. If 8 people are in a game, and there is personal loot, that is 7 more chances than normal of everything on the loot table from every single monster killed. I’ve made mods with drop rates just 3-5x higher and it seems to make things drop WAY more than they statistically should.

That would turn an evening of 100 Meph runs into the equivalent of 800 Meph runs. That’s crazy since I remember weekends of me and my friends getting to Meph-500 when we fewer responsibilities.

Ultimately, by around level 50 you’re able to wear the majority of drops that boost common builds from kiting and chugging mana pots to shattering the Chaos Sanctuary in a few frozen orbs. And that’s just solo farming.

I don’t think there is a way to compromise the loot system. It’s simply not built for this. At least not a way that I can think of. Blizzard’s system of item levels, item level requirements, and zone levels is very screwy compared to the amount of power offered from an item that drops commonly from Normal unique mobs and bosses.

Faulty-1530 · March 10, 2021, 12:43am

The way it would work is 500 items (whites, sockets,runes, whatever besides scrolls or potions) are rolled and toss in a D2 game now, say all 8 were within grabbing distance to keep everything simple. The new way would now roll on each item to assign a player that item. So it’s still 500 items just evenly split however many ways. If two people are involved its 50/50 on the drops involved, if it’s all 8 it’s 12.5% each). So it’s not advocating for increased loot drops.

In this hybrid personal if in any way your lower than the content you are considered at the content level for punishments. So if your 50, your friends 47 and your doing 67 it would count you as the start and since your both within 5 of the leader, you get an even split instead of one having increased odds, if your solo your always getting the drops you normally would, your not really competing with anyone so the change doesn’t even take effect.

I like the ideas but my hybrid personal would work in all those cases… The only case is if your 50 and can do 67 (despite getting <5% XP so why are you) but whatever your 50 doing 67 and a 70 is in your party, you now are losing all the loot and the 70 would leech it all from you, if in your party, and within loot distance. This is something that could happen with my simple formulas above.