So do I. I put value in their intelligence to learn things themselves.
Making the player king seems like a bad way to make them stay and play. Offer an interesting and challenging game instead if you want to get people interested.
Murder them the moment they go out of the town (not literally), so they get interested in figuring out how to improve.
It is a great feeling in Souls games to get murdered by the first boss, and come back and take revenge later.
No. The game, in its entirety, is for the slow learner. Learning as you go.
Or he will enjoy the game and buy that future content, because the game is not trying to insult his intelligence.
I wish it was more like D1 but better graphics like it is, new skills like it is, new lore like it is but the same darkness and despair (which you get from the first story cinematic they showed).
Interesting - sure, challenging - definitely not from start. This is demotivating to the larger portion of players. You may enjoy being killed, but most players donât (see HC percent of players).
HC is not the same. You lose âeverythingâ when killed in HC.
Nor does a game need to get all players. It would be impossible anyway. Better to find a target group and really try to bring those in. Especially when you want to sell MTX.
Slowly raising difficulty will surely lead to a point where some will die, donât worry. We just donât need it immediately.
Oh, now you endorse the whale strategy⌠Very cool. However, every player matters when he spends even a little, itâs still an income. And you canât know who is who, so you need to aim a design welcoming all.
offering hardcore mode in an online only game which diablo 4 would be is just dumb. they should never offer hardcore mode online, because networking issues will cause problems outside of anyones control.
In D4 we have a consumable that is rare and limited and if you are in a dangerous situation you can use the item to escape, the scroll of escape. You're not going to have a lot of these. We don't want to obviate the danger of hardcore. You asked about disconnects. If you DC in a dungeon and you have a scroll, you will automatically use it.
You say âIt canât happen in 10 minutesâ like Diablo isnât one of the best selling franchises in history without any actual tutorial in any of the 3 games.
I put a high value on the new player, but the tutorial really only need teach the basics. Itâs not like learning and getting better at the game immediately stops the second you take one step outside of the tutorial area.
Games that overly try to hold your hand are ultimately going to turn players away.
You also canât go to the extent of hurting the game for existing players. Consider how many âlive serviceâ games decided they could polish or patch things up later only to not survive long enough to get there.
If you canât hang onto a decent amount of existing players, youâre gonna have a dead game that new players donât even want to pick up in the first place. You need a balance of both.
We need it to create a good game from the start. Rather than having to play tens of hours before the game actually starts. Which is what people did not want in this thread.
Huh. No. Find a target group and make a great game for that group. You cant make a great game for everyone at the same time. Has absolutely nothing to do with whales.
Designing a game for everyone is equal to designing a bad game.
Not sure what you are saying. I said nothing about HC, other than HC being irrelevant for the topic. But, of course they should offer HC mode.
This really takes the prize as the most idiotic thing Blizzard has ever designed.
Diablo 4 really should have DC protection (freeze and save the game when you DC, so you log in where you left). This however? It is just laughable.
If you are able to save players from DCs, then implement that. Not a random, rare item that might save you.
This is also why people dread hearing the words âappeal to a broader audienceâ and why so many games that attempt that end up mediocre generic games that donât actually sell all that well.
If you try to make everybody happy, youâll ultimately make nobody happy.
there actually is a tutorial. theres the help menu in diablo 2, and theres tooltips in diablo 3. how you missed both of those, i have no idea.
and, these games have to teach the basics, and assume the average player is someone who never played an ARPG.
im fine with hand holding, its a decent way to let me know that i might have missed this or that, or to teach me concepts i might not know existed because diablo 4 is a different game than usual by diablo standards.
BotW, considered one of the best, gives you nothing other than button prompts, and an occasional how two when you get a new item. I wouldnât consider anything a tutorial in that game. But, it succeeds in the same ways MMX1 is a masterpiece in teaching the player without instruction, with carefully laid out scenarios( if you will that guide the player instinctively). Like a boulder on a ledge above monsters, a circle of leaves in the water just below a ledge. These instinctively tell the player to push the boulder or jump into the ring.
That is the best way IMO. However, Iâm not sure ARPGs are best suited for that type of âinstructionâ.
You could always tick the appropriate mark and ignore the suggestions. Nobody would force you to go through all explanations. Itâs just a choice most novice players would make (to learn properly) and the tutorial should provide whatâs needed for them aka the campaign should be designed for the new players.
You canât do that for all players of all skill levels. You can do that only for experienced players and thatâs what I am advocating for - an option for leveling to 40 just once.
But Blizzard game have always been that way on two fronts. Gameplay accessibly and system specs. Both have always had low bars of entry. This really isnât anything new with Diablo.
If the game challenges the players, the players either increase their skill lvl (game progression!), or stop trying. Both are fine.
And I am saying it sounds horrible. Lvling should be a significant part of an RPG. Taking lvling away after the first character seems like ripping the games heart out.
That wont make a great game for everyone. Rather the opposite.
Accessible gameplay is not the same as appealing to everyone.
Nobody here seems to argue that the game should be hard to learn.
I mean, since some of us are saying you should be able to learn the basic gameplay in ~10 minutes, we are saying the opposite.
Just saying that accessible/easy to learn does not mean the game should tell you how to play well, and give you the solutions. Learning that is what the gameplay is.
Easy to learn should just mean that you can jump into the game and pretty much instantly go out and throw fireballs at enemies. If you stand and cast fireballs while a large enemy turn you into goo with its 2handed mace, well⌠the game does not need to have a tutorial showing you to move away from the two-handed mace of doom. Surely the player will manage to figure that part out sooner or later.
I already clarified Iâve been talking tutorial in the sense of taking the player aside and actually teaching them before they play the game.
Tooltips are something present throughout the game and donât factor into âthe tutorial is X minutes longâ kind of statements like weâve been using.
The part of the game where you take the player aside and go âthis is how you move, attack, etc.â doesnât really need to be more than like 10-20 minutes long.
and thatâs not something any of the Diablo games actually had, yet it still brought in millions of new players.
You also said you would redesign the itemization around new players, which I highly doubt is something youâd let me turn off with a checkbox.
The gameplay design youâve said you would change to cater to new player isnât optional.
Blizzard games used to not try to make everybody happy, though. They had their target market and catered to it very well.
Being accessible isnât the same as attempting to make everybody happy.
Pretty much how Blizzard frames it though. They design thier games with easy to learn gameplay to appeal to everyone. This what they have said for ever. So they consider it an appeal to anyone really.
I dont recall Blizzard ever saying that.
Only that they want everyone to be able to play it (as in accessibility). Not the same as trying to make everyone wanting to play it.
They would be wrong if they did though. Blizzard being wrong on something would not be news, so maybe they did say it.
I do think most game devs understand you cant appeal to everyone however. Mostly seems to be CEOs/investors that sometimes dont understand it.
I mean, not a single game every created appeals to everyone. And the most successful games around tend to be laser focused on specific experiences.
And what have they done in D3 or D4 tonmake everyone happy? I see primarily 3 groups of posters, the D2 faithful, the just make a fun game guys, and the letâs see what has worked and incorporate those ideas and improve upon them while making it itâs own. All 3 have interactions.
Yet, every change or idea hasnât ticked off everyone, which is typically the case with making things for everyone. Most stuff presented has been almost overwhelmingly well recieved by 2 if the groups regularly. And some of the D2 faithful have been on board.
Even in changes after feedback, stuff has been generally positive. Maybe I missed something innthe thread, but Iâm not sure what decisions are being made that are for everyone.
