i don’t know why people even bother with him , he is just a troll trying to get to L3 and nothing else
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Okay, well this will be derailing it a bit, but would barbs be ready to lose the ww tornadoes to have it more tailored for the average Joe? Ofcourse with a massive increased damage.
Would it be a good trade off?, cause a few things would happen then, first the need to gather mobs will lessen, you’ll still be clearing fairly large aoe, but not attacking a whole screen of demons and their moms at the same time. It still favors ad, and it will cause a lot less lag.
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I refuse to read that wall of text. As written before : you are considered a troll to me now.
Have replied plenty of times why. Adios. Go make new posts with more bull.
The game has changed. The focus has changed. If you play just one class, you are years behind.
Perhaps the game has changed for you, but you’re not speaking for everyone.
The fact is, not everybody has the time to learn and develop different characters. I have a WD that I started in 2016. I just reached 1000 Paragon this year, I’ve been playing casually throughout the years (although a lot more this season).
I’d like to feel that if I play this character, I have as good a chance to reach a high level with this character as with any other character.
Achieving character balance is not easy, and I think maybe people underestimate how hard that is to do. But on the other hand, it should be top priority for the devs, and in fact, they have said so.
It’s frustrating for WD players, for example, to know that they can spend time with a character, and then it’s unplayable in groups because it’s too weak in team play. I think people bought this product with the idea that all classes would be equally viable in all situations.
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I bought this product thinking that all legendaries would be exciting and I could play any class I liked.
The “legendaries would be exciting” is total bunk and WDs/Crusaders are totally out of the meta. RIP.
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You do not need class balance if you’re that kind of player though.
WD is the second best trash killer class, second only to a completely broken build.
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I do see your point. Thing is, if I had known - as the first post showed - that the WD was going to be the worst performing class over a 4-5 year period, I might well have said, let me pass on that one, I’ll try another. Thing I’m saying is, I had the expectation (which I think was reasonable) that all the classes were equally viable. That expectation was not met.
WD is the second best trash killer class, second only to a completely broken build.
Harsh reality, although things have gotten better for solo WDs lately.
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Except it really wasn’t. It was the best 4p build in S8 to S12 (give or take) and was always an average solo class. I don’t think it was the worst class for more than like 2 seasons.
But you shouldn’t choose your class based on the best performing builds/class, but on what you want and like to play.
How much time do you have to play? If you are purely solo gearing a character from scratch to finish seasons up to stash unlock which is chapter 8 takes about 30 hours.
From there gearing another character takes a few hours at most.
To be in fully ancient gear with best rolls for just 1 build outside of lon generally takes about 50 hours and having fully ancient gear across all set pieces is about 100 hours. This actually can be less if you choose to just do bounties.
Why would you compare yourself to another class? If your interaction with another class is mainly split bounties and t16 rifts that is all you need to worry about solo.
If you play group, then things are even faster and you will need to play the meta usually and again another and more pertinent issue that the actual power disparity at the top end of the leaderboard for individual classes.
If you have such limited time to “develop” one class, maybe you aren’t one where top end leaderboarding isn’t even something you push to? Since, you need to play groups to get max level leg gems for your solo play. If you have multiple 120+ augments, I’d venture to say you have time to develop every class from secondary drops in group play.
It’s a psychological aspect you’re not acknowledging though Kikaha. Being weak inherently makes the gameplay less fun if you know other classes/builds are stronger, at least for some players. Those players can’t escape the fact that if they play some other build or class they could be doing a lot more damage. More damage means killing faster or going into higher difficulties, which in turn could mean more fun for those players.
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The thing is, those players might very well struggle in playing the highest perfoming class/build and instead clear much higher with a “lesser” build because this build is more in line with their gameplay and/or is easier.
Look, back when hammerdin was the best crusader build, I was way better with my roland crusader than I was with my hammerdin even at the highest level of gameplay (I was rank 6 solo crus with sweep attack when every single other top 100 of asia / NA / EU played hammerdin).
Catering to the “simple minded” (for lack of better words, not english ^^) players is not the way to go imo. Make equal-ish builds of course, but you should always keep in mind the fun aspect of the build you’re creating, more than its power level. If the build is fun, players will push it way more than if it’s powerful but not fun (see thorns necro).
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Agreed the only time when power disparity should matter is when there is direct interaction of the players.
So I think there is valid arguments for playing dps in a 4 man group in so much each class should have a viable build that play that role in the exp farm.
Now for 4 man pushes there will always be the one setup that out performs all the others and that is impossible to fix, but all classes should have viable roles in the speed exp farm grift levels.
Whether it’s the trash killer or the rgk, doesn’t matter to me.
With regard to other spots where players interact would be split bounties and public rifts. Outside of that I don’t see any other need to adjust due to top leaderboard placements.
Ive played this game since it came out and I have played all the classes quite a bit. Some classes I enjoy some I don’t. Barb has always been my favorite dispite the fact that they are not the best. So after the last blizz con I deleted all my sc toons other then my barb. If I want to make another class seasons are long enough to make one with decent gear. I don’t grind I play with friends when season come out until they get bored lol. I never play z class I have the paragon to prove it 2200 paragon after 6 years 
I play for fun. Do I rage with no new content, yes I certainly do. Lets hope recent changes with more communication with blizz help sustain this game until d4 is ready.
It say it devolved since what made diablo great which was its character progression and depth, which became a joke, a number which is now farmed accountwide to increase a single stat that boosts offense and defense. Thats quite the eVoLuTiOn
No class diversity at all all speed now.It was easy to delete all my other classes since all are the same now 
Devolution was a Devo song from the 80’s buy the way lol. Just 2 classes now Dsp and support.
Prokahn is correct ,I have followed his posts over the years. You cant not group classes and pull an average. They have a BMW I have a Yugo:) There are to many things to consider. I have read many lengthy posts crunching numbers. Lets forget about the math because blizz math doesn’t always add up. I play Hota solo for then most part. So I can run say a gr 90 with 30%cdr(for kicks) ik, lets say 600k dps with just area damage. I run gr 90 with with no cdr ik using attack speed with 1500k dps. The end result is pretty much the same time in a gr. Different multipliers is the only difference. Foreget about the math fo a minute and think what make a barb work. Personaly I would say mob density to make area damage work and attack speed for weapon damage multiplier. The only exeption is reakor set (what ever you bulid the set doesn’t matter). Im no math expert but at the moment that’s all we have. I would say, work with passives,maybe add area damage/cdr to a set bonus opening up more room for diversity in the way we roll gear. Maybe make barb sets 5 piece so we can play with more gear. I honestly cant say to many variables on what they can change. If you listen to people that only consider numbers and speed and work towards improving one build or the other we are just going to end up playing they way they think it should be. Lets let classic games decide they are doing a great job so far.
It’s Sept 3 2019, around 10 AM EST.
This is the average of the top 10 players for each class, on the Season 18 GR ladder. This is for SINGLE PLAYER RIFT CLEARING only:
|Rank among all classes|Class|Average Top GR Cleared
|1|Wizard|126.8
|2|WD|117.5
|3|Demon Hunter|116.6
|4|Crusader|115.0
|5|Necromancer|114.2
|6|Monk|112.3
|7|Barb|112.1
What this shows is that for the top players in each class (where “top player” = top 10 position on the ladder), the Wizard class’s players have been able to reach a much higher GR lvl than the players in other classes.
Does this mean that “average” players in those classes would see the same difference in GR clearing with their characters? I don’t know, as I can’t assume that these top players are representative of (a) the playing abilities of, and (b) the willingness to spend time on the game of, people who aren’t the “top players.”
A factor could be that the seasonal buff favors the Wizard class.
When the Necro was released, I recall that Blizz stated a preference for buffing up classes to achieve class performance balance, as opposed to nerfing classes to do that.
But the Wizard class, for this season, really looks overpowered, at least for “top players.” Going forward it just might be easier to nerf the Wizard than to have to raise everybody else up.
Just to play Devil’s Advocate there is a bit of bias in looking at these rankings.
The bias is that fewer players will push and play the weaker perceived classes as much as the the perceived stronger classes.
Regardless, the fact that the top 10 average for Wizard is about +15 GR over Monk and Barbarian is just laughable.
Fazula, Swami, Nilfur, Deathwish, Etched, and Chantodo are just ridiculously strong and are arguably the strongest items in the game.
It’s a shame Wizard has to use them and Archon in some shape or form to really be strong, but at least they’re not cancerous as Wall Charge.
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You can also look at this. I think relative power is complicated. Wizards are clearly the best class in terms of solo clears. The worst class is more difficult to know. Underperforming classes tend to have reduced player numbers, thereby making their numbers “artificially” low. I think that your numbers suggest a reasonably tight range/decent balance of about 5 greater rifts between classes after one excludes wizards.
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