Then it is a whine. Nevalistis already said there’s more coming. Which is a damn sight better than a DH has gotten.
Okay, they threw us a bone with LoN Rapid Fire and ensured we’d have it after the season thanks to the new gem.
But beyond that, nothing. Not even a “we’ll get to it, eventually”.
Just sayin’.
That’s true. But we’ve only ever been able to play zDPS.
We’re not asking to displace the current meta. We’re asking for buffs so we can DPS in off-meta group comps. If other classes want the same, they should do what we did: coordinate, create, and be heard. Rage and I agree that we want to see other classes have more opportunities in group play, but we’re only addressing Barb because that’s where our expertise lies. We leave it to experts of other classes to address those concerns.
Check post times. The discussion between Nev and I happened later. What’s currently transpiring in this thread is discussion and clarification.
We’re not concerned with DH’s because–for the hundredth time–we’re not experts on DHs.
Are you a DH main? Monk main? WD main?
Do you feel your class should get some TLC too?
Do what we did. Be heard. We got attention because we mobilized, worked together, and created a sound proposal. There’s no reason other class communities can’t do that.
At this point in time, I accept the game for what it is and its flaws. If/when D4 is released, I suspect that Blizzard will maintain the D3 server but any “medium/large-sized changes” are unlikely.
Do I want to see the game improve? Absolutely yes.
Have I moderated my expectations about proposed changes being adopted? Yes.
I think this point was driven home by the whole stash space/extra character slot discussion from the last PTR feedback.
Wait I thought this was going to be THE barb patch, what happend here Blizzard?
Good question.
To be crystal clear, we never wanted the patch to be only about Barbs. We only wanted our long-standing issues addressed, either now, or at some specific point in the future. Nev’s reply indicates that’s coming, which is good news, and I certainly don’t mind waiting for proper buffs. But I can’t help but feel someone dropped the ball; our List 1 changes were simple numbers buffs to existing items. They couldn’t have given us those while they work on other stuff?
Really?
See what you get when you are given TL3…Tom Hanks memes.
Lovely - this place is going to look like the PoE forums soon. Can’t wait for all the goofy memes to start showing up.
LoL You got Morticks brace. The most cried about item Barb’s have been wanting for years. You should be happy. That was in the proposal wasn’t it? I’m not 100% on that, I didn’t click the link. (I don’t trust random websites).
Isn’t this a win for Barb’s?
Where do you get your info?
Yes, we got Mortick’s Bracer. No, it is not our most desired item. That’s because it does nothing for us.
Literally nothing. It’s a lateral item that provides zero buffs. See here: PTR Notes 2.6.6 - #10 by Free-1746
That post breaks it down.
Then go read the proposal. The website is 100% safe.
Then stop trolling.
What ww need is more than just this. Morticks brace does not give any damage to ww. Also ww set bonus revolvs around rend skill and it is currently useless. WW only shines if you collect the perfect pieces for it, perfectly rolled with EVERY stat on it. Do you know how hard that is to get that item?
As written before, it takes ALL perfect gear items for ww to not even be close to what other builds/classes can do without even perfect items. Another build for Barbarian requires you to stack charges in order to do damage, it requires a lot of practice and skill to perform well with. Nothing wrong with requiring a bit to play BUT your ramp up time is larger than , let’s compare to Archon Wizard. And on top of that, Archon Wizard outshines Raekor Hota by a good amount of levels.
What was proposed by dedicated Barbarian players were not a cry to get over the top, but rather equal to others.
I want to say thanks for all your work done so far. I sincerly hope it is not a waste of time and that reply from the Nevalist was correct, that Barbarians are getting a much needed look upon. More than one item at least…
I miss the old Raekor. But let’s hope they keep a closer look on this new site and got more in mind.
Going to urge everyone to ignore Trv’s posts. He’s a known troll who got blasted on the old forums for all kinds of bad posts. His specialty is posting incorrect info and failing to read websites. He’s been flagged so it’s only a matter of time before we don’t have to deal with this anymore.
In the meantime, I urge everyone who has not already read the proposal to do so: http://barbarianbuffproposals.strikingly.com/
That will explain exactly what is wrong with the Barbarian class and dispel any erroneous info posted by trolls.
I dont see why someones GR record should be taken into account for their opinion or knowledge about a class…
I have seen enough of him on the old forums to know he is good with Barbs and loves the class. That should be enough for anyone.
What you have done personally, does not mean you don’t understand the game mechanics, nor the required numbers.
Free is not alone on writing those suggestions.
And if you look further, instead of judging from one player alone, you can clearly see ( if you have read the forum post about it ) that Barbarian is behind all other classes.
On top of that, you never read about ww either. It takes the perfect rolled gear items to do decent enough. Not better, not close to other top builds. Decent.
Do you know how much it takes to get all perfect gear items? All builds should be viable and ww is not even close. Neither is Raekor Hota with it’s qwerky stacking.
Raekor Hota makes Ht Wd pet management look easy.
Heck even stacks for Archon Wizard or getting all pets out for Zuni Wd takes no time compared with Raekor stacking.
I strongly suggest you go read up on some of this if you want to debate further or , what you have been doing, making fun of others cause you clearly don’t know what you talk about.
I was not a fan of Free on the old forum. But seeing how much him and the others have done to debate about fixing Barbarians, I cannot do anything but respect that.
It is not about “let’s make Barbarian Op” or anything else, others have been doing. Those suggested things they wrote about and spent a lot of time writing, is actually what is needed. And it even fits the game.
One simple item, that does actually next to nothing does not fix Barbarians nor what we all hoped for when we read about “we are not done with Barbarians”.
I don’t mind there being a zdps role. But I do mind that Barbarians are not equal to other classes and got literally nothing, when all others benefited from previous patches.
Agreed.
Here’s the thing: You’ll start to see various narratives along the lines of, “Barbs are back!”
Bluddshed just released a video where he claims that Mortick’s + Echoing Fury is going to buff Whirlwind Barbs.
No. No it won’t.
I’ve already outlined the problems with Mortick’s: it offers, at best, a lateral item swap. In 99% cases, it will be inferior than the item it can potentially replace because the rune effects it offers are static.
Echoing Fury isn’t going to do anything for WW Barbs because, contrary to popular belief, attack speed doesn’t really do much for the build. We only use it on our swords because it helps proc the Zodiac ring. We have to equip the BK swords, and Echoing Fury can’t replace Furnace in the Cube because we desperately need the extra elite damage.
You might say: “Why not just roll elite damage on weapons? Then you can put EF in the Cube!”
Because we are locked into rolls on weapons. We cannot drop AD because that’s where 50% of our damage comes from, and we can’t drop IAS because we need it for the Zodiac ring. Finally, we can’t drop Strength from the swords because it will always offer more damage and Armor than attack speed.
We can’t even benefit from the move speed because WW isn’t strong enough to kill most enemies in T16–not without massive Augments and quite a lot of Paragon.
So what build of ours could use EF?
None!
None of our major builds can afford to give up equipped or Cubed weapons unless the resultant damage or utility boost is big enough. EF would have to offset the loss of multipliers, and attack speed doesn’t do that for our builds.
A pure R6 Charge build might use EF for the move sped bonus to boost Standoff’s damage, but that’s still not going to beat the 4000% multiplier offered by the standard Vile Charge setup which requires you to use the IK weapon.
See the problem?
What about LON builds? What about Frenzy Thorns, or LON HOTA, or LON Frenzy?
No, no, and no. The problem isn’t the LON rings or the new LoD gem. The problem is that the supporting legendaries that buff skills like Frenzy are horrifically outdated.
There’s no viable LON build for us aside from LON HOTA, and that can’t replace Gavel in the Cube or it loses a massive multiplier. Even now, when S17 ends, this build will tank by 4 or more GRs in terms of power.
And this is really why this patch sucks for Barbs: We don’t really benefit from these items. The Executioner and Messerschmidt’s might be worked into one or two T16 speed-farm builds, but it’s not likely because there are better options such as In-geom or a build-specific item.
I know Barb builds inside and out–I wrote half the dang build guides for them for years now. This is the second patch in a row where we can’t effectively make use of any of the items.
Are some of our speed-farming builds going to be slightly faster?
Maybe.
Is that we needed?
Not even close.
Yeah, I’m going to post a reply on Youtube now.
I don’t really know much about Barbarians or how things work in this game really. But I know there is a problem. And we should not settle with something that buffs nothing.
Nor having Raekor Hota that requires that much to do decent with to begin with.
I would LOVE to get the old Raekor back, when charge dealt the damage. At least an update… Also for the much needed ww. It is so lacklusting that it’s just not even fun to play…
Rickrolling!
Actually, Free, I stand by my assertion that this is a whine thread.
Because, despite being told more is coming quite some hours ago, you’re still going on about not getting it this patch.
Again…
“We want what we want and we want it NOW!!!”
As far as “not being concerned about other classes because we play barbs” (paraphrasing), that may be true, but I promise that Barbs are no more deserving of buffs, item and skill reworks than DH’s. Well even the top classes could use some skill or item reworks.
That said, Barbs have been in the four man meta since Seasons became a thing. No other class can boast that longevity.
I’m sure the changes you want feel urgent. But I can promise you that Barbs are no more deserving than other classes, especially the DH.
Barbs need buffs more than any other classes for the reasons we included in our proposal, the biggest being that, compared to other classes, Barbs are on average 4.1 GR tiers behind them in power even with more Paragon. This doesn’t get into the absurdity that you’ll see when you compare Barbs and Wizards or Necros. The next weakest class is Monk, followed by Witch Doctors and Demon Hunters. Of course, DHs have the perk of playing Impale in off-meta groups as an RGK, something Barbs have never been able to do. The difference between DHs and Barbs is, on the whole, significant in favor of DHs.
Again, we’re not saying other classes don’t also need buffs, but Barbs are, objectively speaking in terms of inter-class parity, priority #1.
This thread is a place to discuss, vent, and consider. No one is whining. It isn’t whining to point out that A) our items are horrifically outdated, B) our class is the weakest and top clears rely on gimmicks, C) we were told that the devs were at work on updates to Barb which have, yet again, failed to materialize, and D) our proposal included quick fixes for the classes that are literally just increases to numbers on existing items.
Did you read the proposal? If so, you know exactly what we want in terms of group play options. And again–if you want it for other classes, get off your keister and get it done. Don’t try to invalidate the concerns of a community just because you think other aspects of the game also need attention. Learn to be constructive. Learn to work with your community.
None of this is whining. It’s valid criticism. Discussion over.
I’m locking this topic because it’s getting heated and off-point. The takeaway I’d like to impress is this:
No one’s feedback is invalid. Nor is anyone’s feedback is more important than someone else’s.
Be constructive in your discussions and rebuttals. Avoid personal attacks. Be civil. That’s all I ask.