Lidless rolls a random element, not always physical. And you can re-roll the element , just like enchanting a bracer or amulet.
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Yep, I have 2 or 3 of every Element (variety is good for testing purposes).
You know, DH, with a shield (especially a Stormshield) plus S&B, that might actually be enough defense to drop WC for Ground Stomp. If you cast it right before your CoE element comes up, that should add a good chunk of damage.
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Very true, I just found a Storm with 10% CHC/ 8% CDR/ Str/ Vit. I’ll try what you suggested tomorrow.
Sure can.
Mm. Juicy. I like that shield.
Yeah, I think a S&B option is good for low-Paragon players or those who don’t want to fish. 30% DR from the passive is no joke. Shame it’s tied to shields, which are so rarely utilized by the class, and not something more useful like 2H Mighty Weapons, ya know?
But cool idea, y’all. I like the initiative!
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https://www.d3planner.com/702486329
This is what I’ve tested. I haven’t played a lot of H90 and I recognize that I’m not a good tester, but I’ve definitely noticed that the gap between S&B and DW has significantly narrowed. It felt good defensively and offensively. Because of the distractions that my children presented 
during my game play yesterday and today, I did one run of DW as prescribed by the guide and one with the of above S&B setup. I did half runs with both setups at GR 115. The progression seemed so on para that at this time I can’t really distinguish one run from the other. I can say that GS didn’t play very fluid, so dropped it from the Skill bar. Anyways, there is more testing to be had.
Interesting. Never got one that didn’t have Physical damage.
Good old RNG. I’m glad you posted something. I tried to post the following a couple of minutes ago, but I couldn’t. I must have dropped in my permission levels. I did my actual first clear @ GR 115 with 4:00 minutes to spare. I only have one augmented piece of armor. It was a decent rift. My next goal is to run a DW GR to see if it blows S&B out of the water, which it should. This will tell me by how much S&B is an inferior product.
I just cleared a 118 and then a 120 using Stormshield + S&B. I did try out trading WC for Stomp, and found that while I did see a significant damage increase, it made me too squishy and I was dying constantly.
The 118 felt modestly challenging. The 120 felt very hard. Spent about 8 keys getting it, I think, compared to a comparable number getting a 123 dual-wielding. STR with each setup was comparable, 16.1k with Shield, 16.5k DW.
I WOULD say that a S&B setup is about 3 GRs behind, BUT: I don’t have any freeze / stun on gear, unlike DH. A perfect Undisputed with STR, VIT, AllRes, Frenzy%, and 5% Freeze, and perfect gloves with AS, CDR, CHC, CHD, 5% Stun, would almost certainly make a significant difference: maybe 1-2 GRs worth. A setup with a perfectly rolled Lidless Wall might be only 1 GR behind in terms of damage, though I must admit, the melee reduction on Stormshield comes in super handy.
As a longtime Leapquake player, it’s still shocking to me how fast this build kills RGs. Boss on the 120 was Ghom, put him down in about 45 seconds I think.
BTW, DH, I just looked at your character, and it looks like you don’t have a rune selected for Frenzy. You’ve got Cold% on your gear, so I think you want to switch to Sidearm.
If it turns out that a S&B setup is only a few GRs behind in terms of damage output, that would be very interesting indeed.
And yeah, this build absolutely shreds solo RGs. That’s my favorite part, in fact: the one on one vs the RG!
Wish I had more time to log in lately, but this dissertation won’t write itself. Hopefully this week I’ll be able to farm the new set since classes were cancelled.
Well, let’s see…
With basically the same rolls on all the consistent gear, a S&B setup is only 1 Frame slower for both Regular and WOTB: 9F/8F S&B vs 8F/7F DW. That drops you about 12% damage (88% of DW).
Trading 130% CHD for 10% CHC drops you about 6.4% damage (93.6% of DW).
-1 offensive passive is probably about -10% damage. (90% of DW).
Assuming you use Lidless, Elemental % is the same.
So .88 * .936 * .90 = .74 , i.e. S&B does roughly 74% the damage of DW.
That’s about 2 GRs. DW damage = 100. S&B damage = 74.
74 * 1.17 * 1.17 = 101.3
I didn’t have the toughness to do it, but this setup would reach a point at which it could drop WC for Stomp a bit sooner (in terms of Paragon) than a DW setup would. Making that skill change actually changes the hard CC rolls you might want on gloves and belt. Because with Stomp you can control when you CC, you want to avoid ccing mobs at all except during CoE cycle. You would also probably want to avoid the Wrenching Smash rune since the pull applies 40% CC resist instantly.
DW:
https://www.d3planner.com/374783749
To my surprise, I cleared 1 minute behind my S&B clear with an equally decent GR 115. I honestly was expecting a far better clear, even if the GR poor one, but that’s not what happened. I only died twice. Maybe my DW is not as optimal as I think it is. I’m kind of at a loss
You are totally right, I’ve playing without a selected Rune (Sidearm). Should have better clears the next time I login.
I experienced the same.
May want to drop Relentless for Ruthless. Also, did you have a conduit in either rift? That can make a big difference in this build.
I’ll drop Relentless for Ruthless next time, I’m kind of sissy. I had a conduit in both DW & S&B runs. I had a Power in the S&B run, but couldn’t find an Elite to kill or good density to take full advantage of it. I did die more in my S&B run because must have had like 4 arcane beem Elites.
Could you do me a solid and post something so can have an available post for tomorrows testing. I do need to try Lidless and I need to start doing some augmenting.
Sure, here you go, locked and loaded.
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Cleared GR 120 with 2 plus minutes to spare. Decent to good rift.
https://www.d3planner.com/952575582
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Hey guy, you should record video of your clears. If you have Windows 10, the build in MS Game Bar makes for a surprisingly easy and straight-forward recording tool. Then all you have to do is upload it to a YouTube account.
Absolutely bro, but I’m going out of town early tomorrow morning with the Mrs for a few days, so it might not be until Friday at the earliest. I can say that it felt pretty good. I had one of those temple map with the opening stone doors (conduit), a sandy temple/tomb maps (power), and a linear outdoor map with good density (I wish I would have gotten conduit/power in this map).
Edit: 3 times I cast WotB when I shouldn’t have. I’m so used to casting WotB for perma because of HOTA and WW game play, but I’m getting better.
Good job! How much mainstat? About 24k?
Also, a couple quick notes:
Not sure which follower you are using, but if you take Enchantress with “Focused Mind” (+3% AS), you’ll get a 1 frame boost on your Frenzy when in WOTB. Probably worth it if she’s not already by your side. And you have one more CDR roll than you actually need. You could reroll your glove CDR to Area Damage, and it’ll help you out a little in density.
Neither of these are major, but might give you some modest gains at low expense.
I logged in really quick and it says that STR Main stat in 20,986.
I’m using Templar, but I’ll look into the Enchantress.
I’ll make that change and see how it goes.