resource reduction from CC plus resource gain from BKs allow for blood funnel to be used without any other resource passives. Our best healing source that is not used with istvan/bom build. If you choose to go full glass and run CC with istvans you either need windshear or weapon master losing a damage passive or important healing.
Thanks to Rend buffs, GR120 is down (W6 + IB)… need to start Augment my gears to go higher i think.
For HC which version is better? Standard or crimson?bulkathos or istvans?
It really comes down to what you’re comfortable with and enjoy playing.
The speed/regen from Bloodfunnel that using BK’s provides is very nice.
The additional armor and 30% damage from IB’s are great but Swords to Ploughshares doesn’t provide the same fluid healing as Bloodfunnel and you don’t get the fury regeneration or speed benefits of BK’s.
Folks have also been playing with wielding Ambo’s/Doombringer (20% phys) and cubing Furnace and also having some good clears. Specifically to HC when I’ve tried this I play it like IBs and use windshear since we can’t afford to drop Nerves of Steel for Weapons Master.
From a toughness perspective both versions (standard or crimson) are fine, I compare it more to how you enjoy playing. Some folks really like Ground Stomp to gather/trigger BoM and other like to have Charge for even more mobility. I typically like the crimson version with ancient spear and no BoM at this point but there’s really no wrong answer which is one of the best outcomes with these changes to the build, there are a lot of options to play with.
Messing around before the season starts tonight I’ve done 124+ with every version just described so the good news is we have plenty of options to tinker and play with, we’ll see which one eventually rises to the top.
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This guy again
Of course, I asked for a nerf to the OP AoV crusader build now as I had to wizards OP build months and months ago. It has never been about any particular class. It has always been about bringing outliers back into range. Ulmaguest has also asked for bazooka wizard and AoV crusader nerfs, recently.
Did you notice the repky from Matthew Cederquist?
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Please let us not contaminate the WW guide with this back and forth, let’s go outside like gentlemen and make our own troll thread without dirtying this fine establishment up.
6 Likes
You are right.
You know, considering how much extra damage you can get in density from AD, you could probably have a WhirlRend trash clearer in groups that just continuously spams HC Rend (tapping WW every 3 seconds to refresh Wastes 4). That’s hard to do in solo play because you’ll die if you stop WWing for very long, but with supports keeping you alive, it should be possible.
It might crash the game, but it should be possible!
Start with the BK version for ease of play. As you get more comfortable/better gear, you can transition to the IB version as that looks to be, at the top end, stronger.
But honestly, in a Season, both versions will shake out in the same range.
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Did an 80 solo with 300 para last night with a messerschmidts in hand and nothing rolled. Can’t wait to get this build optimized. Was 45th on leaderboard before I went to bed.
We don’t know for certain but the progression described in the OP seems to be it. At the moment, it looks like genuine end-game pushes will use the IB set with Crimson’s, trade Band of Might for CoE, and use Swords to Ploughs or Life per Hit for healing.
But again, we don’t know for certain yet.
How about the dmg output/dmg reduction ratio tab? Can someone provide some data for comparisson (zodiac builds) - WW with COE/Band/strongmars VS. WW5/CC/2/COE. And btw how much CDR is suitable for CC variant? Does it shear amount replace boon passive?
THX a lot in forward wise ones!
BTW.: Did GR122(1869para) 520 EU NS leaderborad:)
For the required 2 APS to apply Rend twice, in WOTB with 1 attack speed roll, I have 1.94 aps. Does the extra attack speed from Bul Kathos weapon set, even though it’s not reflect in my character sheet, give me over 2 APS so I can get 2 Rend’s stacked?
I guess it’s the old “you need high paragon for it to work” kinda thing. I tried this and although the damage ramped up nicely, it was very squishy. So I guess you can add to your guide a note that low paragons should def stick to BoM, in either IB and BK variant
You do not need 2 APS to apply rend twice. You need 2 ticks of WW and/or Dust Devils, which means that you will always have enough attack speed to apply WW twice, even with a slow 2-hander. You never need to worry about attack speed with this build.
Here’s my story after 70 rifts (when i logged after 150% Lament):
*120 like 5 minutes
(i read guide exactly and noticed i dont need any as, so i drop old stuff)
*125 - in 1st try
*20 keys to 130! (and this is my whole in game personal best, i dont have meta char so no high clears groups) and i smasched Rat
*50 keys, one decent rift, Perendi was no issue, 131 clear 14:100:
Im 4,2k paragon, so nothing special, i used older gear with ~420 Str augments, I like BK swords with INTO THE Fray! This is awesome in density.
I feel strong. Thanks Free, for all your work@ this forum, U made my Bubarian buffed, i never posting here but im reading all, props for u Free.
My builid was C2/BK Swords, last skill was Demoralize (i dont feel good with Rage Flip yet). Im casual Non-Season player and this builid is just strong.
Gear was:
hhttps://www.d3planner.com/382576268
If u got any advices where to look for upgrades now this will help me a lot. Ty builid ++
/e question: - i got ancient shoulders str / res / 8cdr/ 11 rend and same normal shoulders but 15% rend
Is 15% Rend from shoulder and armor = 30? If so ill look for new ancient maby
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Strongarms is 30% dibs, which means (assuming 65% taeguk, 30% 2 rend rolls and 10% battle rage) that it adds 14% damage
Crimson’s with diamond in helm, cdr in zodiac (worn), weapons, shoulder, gloves and rcr in zodiac gives approximately 63% cdr (dmg) and 33% rcr (dr)
Let’s say that CoE is x1.5 damage (200% for 4 sec, every 16 sec=50% average). With good play (grouping in other cycles, dps in physical) it is more than that.
Every potential build shares wastes damage bonuses, 50% wastes dr, lamentation x2.5, zodiac, gems. In summary:
| Build | Additional damage multiplier | Additional damage reduction % |
|---|---|---|
| W6, CoE, Strongarms, Mortick, BoM | x1.71 | 90% |
| W6, CoE, MoC, Mortick, BoM | x1.875 | 92.5% |
| W6, CoE, Strongarms, MoC, BoM | x2.13 | 85% |
| W5CC2, Mortick, BoM | x1.63 | 93.3% |
| W5CC2, Strongarms, BoM | x1.85 | 86.6% |
| W5CC2, CoE, Mortick | x2.44 | 66.5% |
However this table doesn’t take into account factors such as strongarms not affecting guardian, added utility by CC due to high cdr and ability to slot IP etc. CC/CoE, even with IP, is really squishy for low-mid paragon and BoM is needed.
When it comes to weapons:
Option 1: BK. Solves Fury problems, nice speed, Blood funnel for good healing
Option 2: IB. Slower, needs wind shear rune, needs a LpH roll somewhere which costs damage (-5% DPS if you replace strength in a weapon and you have 25k mainsat) but x1.3 damage, added armor
Option 3: Ambo + Doombringer (x1.14 damage if it’s your third physical roll, x1.16 if second due to difficulty with rolling FoT) or Sunkeeper +30% elite dmg. Cube Furnace for even more elite damage. A very good option but whether AS is needed for 2 APS (2 applications of rend/sec) should be conclusively tested. Losing rolls for AS costs dps.
All three can be combined with whichever combination from the table. I don’t know which one is the best of course.
Passives: you should test yourself if you can drop Boon or not. Just remember that, with the exception of ruthless, all dps passives are dibs: brawler for example doesn’t add 20% dmg but 9.7% if no strongarms or 8.5% if strongarms.
Hope that helps
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I tested it. You only need 1.0 APS to keep up 2 stacks of Rend when applying via WW, because DDs apply Rend as well, within 9 yards of your character.
Info here: Waste set bonus - #26 by Rage-13139
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This means that the two sets are not at all the best options by default. For example, doombringer setup is half IB + 50% elite damage furnace + weapon’s master passive instead of wind shear (ambo main hand) so you get to keep blood funnell
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