For those of you pushing 130+, at what GR does paragon impact start leveling off and becomes almost a non-factor?
I’ve heard on the upper end (I’m guessing 135+), then doubling paragon (3000 to 6000) adds 2-3 GRs which I find pretty hard to believe.
Let me use a more precise example… at what GR would you say, an additional 1000-2000 paragon levels (5000-10000 main stat) make a very marginal difference?
A more scientific way to prove it out might be to determine monster scaling in terms of hp and incoming damage and compare that to relative gain in your own character’s dps and toughness with each incremental GR level. The mob HP scaling must be linear I’m guessing.
Question: how much does Lamenation’s Secondary +% rend damage matter? Is that secondary stat valued he same as +%physical damage or +%Rend damage from shoulders or chest? I have what I thought was a pretty well-rolled ancient lamentation, but the +%Rend is only 113. If I am calculating that correctly, it would be roughly 30% more damage if that was +150% rend damage - unless there are other variables that I don’t understand?
Lamentation is it’s own multiplier, so you can just straight up compare the multipliers between two belts without having to worry about anything else.
You just take the ratio of (1 + decimal version of Lamentation multiplier). The 1+ is there since it’s a bonus on top of your regular damage. E.g. if your regular damage is 1 and you deal 50% extra damage, you then deal 1.5 damage (1+50/100). For a 150% Lamentation, if you deal 1 damage before factoring in the belt multiplier, you deal (1 + 150/100) = 2.5 damage after.
I think you had the right idea, but you were missing the 1+ for your baseline damage in your calculation.
So to compare a 150% belt to a 113% belt, a 150% belt is (1+150/100)/(1+113/100) = 17.4% more damage than a 113% belt. A non-ancient belt with 140+ bonus will handily beat an otherwise well-rolled ancient 113 belt in the damage department.
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What are the mechanics of the bloodbath rune for rend? It doesn’t explicitly state it, but does it apply 1 stack of rend that is capped with your other stacks? Or is considered a separate dot that isn’t capped by your rend stacks?
Bloodbath is like Rends cast by an entirely different character (who also has Lamentation equipped).
So you can get 2 stacks of Rend via Ambo or hard-cast, and 2 more from Bloodbath.
I think you might be right that this isn’t explicitly stated in the guide, but it is available in a link through the Build Mechanics section, which takes you to this post: Rend mechanics 2.6.7 - #3 by sVr-21743
Ahh, thank you for this! I read through the rend mechanics post when I first started playing the build, but obviously I didn’t remember all of it! I’m going to bookmark that page so I can brush up on the mechanics when I need to.
Hi again!
After finding some spare ancient IP blades in Korlics backpack I handed them over to my WW barb and rerolled cdr onto the Little Rogue. Also changed shoulders to those with Str/AR/CDR/AD and rolled ms on Boots to armor. And started augmenting More pieces of gear.
I‘m now at ~62% cdr and 115% AD.
Will test that when I come back to playing with my WW barb.
I’ve had a couple days to play around with the Ambo/Doom setup on GR128 and wanted to share my observations for those who might find it helpful. Note that this feedback pertains to Seasonal Players Only
TLDR: Ambo/Doom is clearly superior to Istvans. The guide suggests Paragon 2500+ for this setup, but given my experiences with both now, I would have switched over as early as Paragon 1000 (depending on skill/gear). For reference I’m at P1700 today.
Offense: Ambo/Doom is very noticeably stronger than IBP. Adding COE makes a huge difference - 2.25x FnR + 3.0x COE multipliers = GG! Additionally you’ll gain an extra Phys + AD roll from Doom which is also significant.
Defense: Squishier than IPB given the 30% armor, but surprisingly not as noticeable as I was expecting, especially given my relatively low paragon. I wasn’t suddenly getting one-shot in situations I would have survived before, so it’s not drastic. The difference is that I can’t face-tank as aggressively on dense packs like I did with IPB. With this setup it’s more about going in-and-out and timing that with your convention cycles. Skirmish style.
Playability: Requires more skill than IPB for sure. As mentioned above, need to be more careful when you “go in” and need to manage your cooldowns more carefully. Whereas with IPB I was very comfortable with 43-44% CDR, with this setup I had to reroll AD on my gloves to CDR to get up to 48% in order for the build to run sufficiently smooth. I’m guessing 43-44% is doable if you’ve got elite skill and don’t mind hard-casting Rend every other second to accelerate the Wrath cooldown, but for most it won’t be doable or even fun.
Those of you running IPBs right now who want to eventually push higher, I recommend switching sooner rather than later if you’ve got ancient Ambo/Doom. It will teach you better habits, get you used to timing the COE cycles, tighten your CDR management and make you a better overall player, in addition to pushing your ceiling higher.
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Free, this is listed on the weapon rolls section. I believe this is from before we realized that HC Rend proceed AD, so the recommendation was to go for 10% over AD, correct? I just dropped a Primal LR this afternoon with STR, LPH and CDR, so was reviewing the IB variant choices and wanted to make sure I understand as well as point it out so you can update if necessary. Thanks for writing and keeping such a useful, comprehensive guide up to date!
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Once you get to a certain point pushing, the hard cast rends + standard MH ambo rends will account for a significant chunk of total damage (I’m guessing over 80%) so intuitively it would make sense to take that over AD (on the MH only).
I don’t have any testing to back this up, but the fact that all the top barbs on seasonal ladder are rolling 10% on MH suggests it is accurate. The more area damage you already have, the better that 10% is.
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Thanks. I think I’m in a good place in that I got native CDR and STR which are recommended, and I can roll LPH to AD or 10%damage as needed depending on BR rune choice. I’m a 1200 paragon player that’s mostly single player so I don’t think I’d ever have enough paragon to want to roll str off.
Yah you lucked out on the rolls and have the luxury of flexibility, so just play around with it and see which one you like. At your paragon the 10% will be immediately more noticeable since you won’t need to resort to hard casting for a long time.
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I’ve never really played the IB variety so I’m excited to try it out. User skill will definitely be a limiting factor!
Little question. At high paragon it should be ok to waste STR on the gauntlet and gain AD there. I’m wondering if it is ok to do the same with shoulders and roll them like AR CDR REND AD. Wondering if the extra bonus of 20%AD is ok for high pushing.
If you have shoulders that rolled like that then you literally hit the jackpot. I’ve been gambling shoulders for a long time trying to get CDR/Rend/AD… it’s as elusive as a trifecta FOT.
You want to prioritize enough CDR to keep you wrath up without boon of bulkathos(60%). This allows you to take brawler. After that stack as much area damage as possible. And as blayze said the trifecta shoulders are basically like getting a perfect flavor of time. Ive been rolling shoulders all season and havn’t even seen a normal version. They would need to roll two (CDR,area,rend)stats then you roll off str for the 3rd.
If you have to choose between an area roll or rend take the area for push. Area scaling is huge.
Check out my seasonal barb, rolled a quad shoulder… only problem is it’s not ancient. I’m going to save it for when season 20 ends and try it out on my NS barb. NS currently has ancient STR, CDR, All Res and % Rend. My paragon is still low so not sure it’s worth it to lose the ~600 str augment.
Quad gloves is my next goal. 
Yah those shoulders are decent. The loss of the strength on shoulders is pretty insignificant. At 25k main stat it is 2% damage and some defense. The higher paragon you get the lower that percentage is. For me it would only be a 1.7% loss.
Don’t go out of your way you find those shoulders though. it is better to fix bad roll in other slots. Having two decent rolls there is good enough till you are min/maxing like me.
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A few nights ago I rolled a really strong quad ancient raekor shoulder with rend stats. Was pretty peeved salvaging it lol. My focus now is to get higher augments -> paragon -> secondary rolls without the likes of thorns, +gold, exp etc.